From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Bernardo Barros Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: keyboard politics [Was: Key bindings proposal] Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 12:23:03 -0300 Message-ID: References: <0MA8Ib-1OdzCU08CX-00BIlN@mx.perfora.net> <4C670917.2040709@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1281974473 1271 80.91.229.12 (16 Aug 2010 16:01:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:01:13 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Uday S Reddy Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 16 18:01:12 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ol27Y-0006Nh-Vm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 18:01:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58845 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ol1t6-00064L-9k for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 11:46:12 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=51045 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ol1nv-000218-4O for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 11:42:42 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ol1Wj-0005ba-7h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 11:23:06 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-px0-f169.google.com ([209.85.212.169]:45571) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ol1Wj-0005bR-3D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 11:23:05 -0400 Original-Received: by pxi5 with SMTP id 5so3491344pxi.0 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:23:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=gHgsUhkpk2NkyU9X77sa08NnFoe51gFjEVul5L/t9Ec=; b=daiTqcbpDD0lmnaoL9qUXy0OV8WthlUybIdua4DEUrnoRLAXylMoBlTWctuD75j+h+ C9agQX4CwhBWMWF9S38p6UIGkjTXxEhSrfVO5e/BPk8bIOwYM0bumTUXBIwcHBCzZyya 6oXLrhp3aGA/0eMoKR8Qs2IbQtYlhhZMT/rUU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=jrtnjVH7z7yrh6KJgwOdBHIysSSTKFuVqD85xu0c1nqDnxqhAWcrkhe1on2+5IYVkj yEHxixPjpkxSe6YKhSKko3L8qAM6CQIZAegl6m640u6EacX3jy7t0sGmBD/ayTp9cWtj mWelVOc0r3il7FhNM5MI7vA4igLbqnLHxiDo8= Original-Received: by 10.114.123.9 with SMTP id v9mr6319857wac.116.1281972183780; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:23:03 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.220.84.71 with HTTP; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:23:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:128804 Archived-At: BTW that's the only proprietary-related piece in my system, but it's hardware not software at least 2010/8/16 Bernardo Barros : > I would buy a simple GNU key to replace the Windows key in my > thinkpad... (if I can replace a simple key from the keyboard, I don't > know if it is possible) > > > 2010/8/16 Uday S Reddy : >> On 8/14/2010 10:22 PM, Xah Lee wrote: >> >>> the way i'm guessing how the Win logo became common in PC keyboard is >>> this: >>> >>> Microsoft invented the key and logo (probably influenced by Apple), and >>> place >>> it on the keyboard they manufacture, as well integrated in their OS for >>> use of >>> that key. Perhaps in a year or two, other keyboard manufactures, in >>> competition >>> with Microsoft's hardware department, also wanted to have that key, >>> because >>> MS's OS is very popular. >> >> Well, at the time (Microsoft natural keyboard in 1994 and the first >> successful Windows build in 1995), Microsoft's OS wasn't exactly "popula= r". >> =C2=A0Many corporations were using Mac's, and Microsoft had to wean them= back to >> the PC. >> >> Yes, it is plausible that Microsoft introduced the windows key in its ow= n >> keyboard and probably copied Apple in doing so. =C2=A0(This is by no mea= ns the >> biggest thing they copied from Apple in the 90's!). >> >> However, the windows key in its original form was just a start button. >> =C2=A0Notice this in your own picture. >> >> =C2=A0http://xahlee.org/emacs/ms_keyboard/ms_natural_keyboard.html >> >> I found the O'Reilly "Windows 95 in a Nutshell" guide on my bookshelf >> (still!) and verified that invoking the start menu was all that the wind= ows >> key did originally. =C2=A0I remember going, "why do they have such a sil= ly key in >> such a strategic location?" >> >> So, you can understand my disrespect for the Microsoft windows key. =C2= =A0Not >> only was it copied from Apple (as we are guessing), but also rather stup= idly >> copied. =C2=A0Now, it is possible that the Microsoft's keyboard division= (which >> was quite good) and the Windows division (which was trying hard to catch= up) >> were out of sync and the stupidity wasn't intentional. =C2=A0It is also = possible >> that Microsoft just found an opportunity to push its brand and used it. >> >>> i'm not sure if there's anything explicitly sinister about how it came = to >>> became so popular. >> >> If you have read any of the documents in the Microsoft antitrust case, y= ou >> will definitely change your mind about the "sinister" bit. =C2=A0Microso= ft >> bullied a whole industry into submission. =C2=A0Yes, a keyboard manufact= urer >> doesn't have to put the windows key or logo, but if they posed a threat = to >> Microsoft dominance, Microsoft knew how to bring them in line. >> >> ------ >> >> Coming back to the point of discussion, since Microsoft never designed >> complete systems like Apple did, their OS and keyboard are loosely coupl= ed. >> =C2=A0One doesn't have to use the windows key to use Windows, or to use = it >> effectively. =C2=A0Since the OS cannot depend on the presence of the win= dows key, >> it can't put essential functions on it, only conveniences. =C2=A0There i= s no >> reason why the users can't use it for different purposes if they want to= . >> =C2=A0And, there is no reason why Emacs shouldn't take full control of i= t to >> serve its users' needs. >> >> Cheers, >> Uday >> >> >> >