From: Fren Zeee <frenzeee@gmail.com>
To: Jeff Clough <jeff@chaosphere.com>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: What is emacs architecture ?
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 21:49:50 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <AANLkTincJEDLsJgVq3DA9d2GUOY9GL2pLIUF30cJDa0L@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1278562570.16810.20.camel@logrus.localdomain>
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 9:16 PM, Jeff Clough <jeff@chaosphere.com> wrote:
> I mostly just lurk on the list and putter around in Emacs as a sort of
> hobby project at this point, but I've made a number of personal
> modifications to the code and have figured out a thing or two. Here's
> what I suggest as to learning how Emacs is built at the C level.
>
> 1. Most of Emacs isn't even *at* the C level. It's in the Lisp
> sources. Make darn sure you know Emacs Lisp and have followed a bunch
> of calls and threaded your way through the Emacs sources to know how
> that all works. Here, the Emacs Lisp debugger is your friend. Learn
> how to unconditionally invoke it. Create a function in Lisp which does
> this, then runs some interesting functions. Step through and watch what
> happens.
>
> 2. Once you get to a function called by Emacs Lisp that is implemented
> in C, dive into the source for that function and work through it. Emacs
> is a large, complex project and you will find a lot of pre-processor
> macros have been defined to make C suitable for it's development. Find
> the definitions for those macros and "hand expand" them to find out what
> is truly happening behind the scenes.
>
> 3. Even seemingly trivial functions defined in the C sub-strata have a
> lot of cool stuff. Look at "(point)" as an example.
>
> 4. Stay away from running gdb. You don't need to be stepping through
> code at that level. You need to be understanding things like what cons
> cells are made of, what a buffer is, how buffer local variables work,
> etc. That means reading their code, not threading your way through the
> execution stack to learning how one specific use of these things is
> handled.
>
> 5. Question everything. If you look at the math functions, for
> instance, you might see that *two* checks are done to find floating
> point numbers when division occurs. Try to figure out why this happens.
>
> 6. Create your own "toy" functions at the C level and expose them to
> Lisp. These might even be non-toy functions. If you run even the most
> "minimal" of functions to read a file into a buffer in Emacs, you'll be
> implicitly invoking more than a dozen calls to other functions. Find a
> way to not do that and implement it.
>
> 7. Ultimately, the best way to learn how something like Emacs works is
> to hack at it. Make it do something else. Break it. Explore. Find a
> function like forward-char and go through it and all of the functions it
> calls until you know what every line of C does to make that command
> work.
>
> That's what I did, anyway, and it seems to work for me.
>
> Jeff
>
This newbie really liked the suggestions by Jeff , Stephen and many of
you. However, it would help me most by imitating at this stage and
requesting a typescript of a session, and some comments. Since this is
Jeff's reply, here it would be best to concentrate on the plan by
Jeff. I communicated with him and he has some time and health issues
so anyone of this group, all of you experienced gurus, can anyone run
a typescript of commands and send me the output. I can then convert to
pdf and put comment boxes if I have questions.
Thanks
Franz
The typescript would show the exact steps and our experience would be
exactly the same. script is a unix command.
DESCRIPTION
Script makes a typescript of everything printed on your terminal. It is
useful for students who need a hardcopy record of an interactive session
as proof of an assignment, as the typescript file can be printed out
later with lpr(1).
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2010-07-19 4:49 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 42+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2010-07-07 5:50 What is emacs architecture ? Fren Zeee
2010-07-07 6:07 ` Masatake YAMATO
2010-07-07 15:26 ` Karl Fogel
2010-07-07 15:36 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-07 17:30 ` Stephen Berman
2010-07-07 20:02 ` Karl Fogel
2010-07-07 22:28 ` Fren Zeee
2010-07-07 22:32 ` Karl Fogel
2010-07-08 3:27 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-08 4:16 ` Jeff Clough
2010-07-19 4:49 ` Fren Zeee [this message]
2010-07-08 7:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-08 7:40 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2010-07-08 17:37 ` Karl Fogel
2010-07-19 4:35 ` Fren Zeee
2010-07-19 14:43 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-19 17:12 ` Chad Brown
2010-07-19 22:04 ` Fren Zeee
2010-07-19 22:39 ` Chad Brown
2010-07-20 2:10 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-20 2:58 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-20 5:19 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-20 12:53 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-20 3:00 ` Miles Bader
2010-07-20 3:24 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-20 5:13 ` Miles Bader
2010-07-20 12:42 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-20 5:21 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-20 6:21 ` Fren Zeee
2010-07-20 8:23 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-20 8:59 ` Andreas Schwab
2010-07-21 3:25 ` Fren Zeee
2010-07-21 7:51 ` Andreas Schwab
2010-07-21 3:28 ` Fren Zeee
2010-07-21 14:49 ` David Robinow
2010-07-20 8:48 ` Andreas Schwab
2010-07-07 18:15 ` Fren Zeee
2010-07-08 0:09 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-08 6:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-08 8:22 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-08 9:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-07 18:51 ` Fren Zeee
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
List information: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=AANLkTincJEDLsJgVq3DA9d2GUOY9GL2pLIUF30cJDa0L@mail.gmail.com \
--to=frenzeee@gmail.com \
--cc=emacs-devel@gnu.org \
--cc=jeff@chaosphere.com \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).