From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs learning curve Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 13:10:40 +0200 Message-ID: References: <10954D02-E217-49F3-8824-757DA34074AB@gmail.com> <83zkxzakr0.fsf@gnu.org> <83pqyva8ms.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1278846688 6848 80.91.229.12 (11 Jul 2010 11:11:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 11:11:28 +0000 (UTC) Cc: levelhalom@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: ams@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jul 11 13:11:11 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OXuRC-0006G3-1g for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 13:11:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43771 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OXuRB-0005QW-C7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 07:11:09 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=60552 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OXuR4-0005QR-N3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 07:11:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OXuR3-0007QI-EO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 07:11:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ey0-f169.google.com ([209.85.215.169]:44634) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OXuR3-0007QD-7F; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 07:11:01 -0400 Original-Received: by eydd26 with SMTP id d26so489699eyd.0 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 04:11:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=lPFSdTJOzBi6wh6PgzcsQbeOVeU2FsYXLcg8n2ZCOFM=; b=QcdjYC+mj5/qj3wCg8LA2Ih4Cap7UAfl0Xq6uo48QEezmZMw6xZbnzPYUsrKPiTT0w Q4ycSpXgn50xXfJvDKUeW8bPakt4X4XOfJj66/YbptGCzR86ZjjjcIosd/uLMXEfHfxG mNr1coZKStVsuFLB1F437APBfxOUoav7M5Ukw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Wv7TvnU8k7Igd9BVFJ5oR4is5FAAtfxxCBmHRtVgct8BoIDjKvFhy6pBv6NwIn79kR UJWkQhaTg+Xh8SPVf3kDzjj6j/0N1cyZk2GoGpJ8pM7dMoGtDd7ax58IqZHGb32pFht3 OsZLfGOKjOr/p5b84Hv7OS0JHmPuUgG5ATi98= Original-Received: by 10.213.16.137 with SMTP id o9mr8147050eba.86.1278846660160; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 04:11:00 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.213.15.132 with HTTP; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 04:10:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127040 Archived-At: On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 10:33 AM, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote: > =C2=A0 > I doubt that words like yank, kill, point, etc hinder new users > =C2=A0 > from using emacs. =C2=A0The argument seems extremly weak. > > =C2=A0 Please try to be more specific. Exactly what argument is it you > =C2=A0 think of? Exactly why do you think it is weak? > > I find it weak since it side tracks the real issue, namley how to use > emacs more efficiently when you are a new user. Thanks. I see what you mean. There are different opinions on this. My view is that raising complexity makes it much, much harder to learn. This is not a linear growth. Talking about working memory could perhaps make it easy to understand for many people here. Our working memory is very limited. (Much can be said about this, but I do not know if it is confusing here. For example one thing to say is that frustration may use part of it more constantly.) > What words you use > won't hinder that. =C2=A0You will always encounter new definitions for > words, if one goes about renaming everything to what is currently > popular it will only cause mass confusion. The words matter since it raises complexity to use unfamiliar words.