From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Amit Aronovitch Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bidi,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Re: Arabic support Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 16:42:38 +0300 Message-ID: References: <83bp8oml9c.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1171077672==" X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1283175800 1225 80.91.229.12 (30 Aug 2010 13:43:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 13:43:20 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-bidi@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Kenichi Handa Original-X-From: emacs-bidi-bounces+gnu-emacs-bidi=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 30 15:43:18 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: gnu-emacs-bidi@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oq4dp-0001H6-QN for gnu-emacs-bidi@m.gmane.org; Mon, 30 Aug 2010 15:43:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56219 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Oq4do-0006Ew-6U for gnu-emacs-bidi@m.gmane.org; Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:43:16 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=46466 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Oq4dg-0006Bt-EW for emacs-bidi@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:43:11 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oq4dY-0006jr-EA for emacs-bidi@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:43:01 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pv0-f169.google.com ([74.125.83.169]:59165) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oq4dN-0006i2-Iq; Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:42:49 -0400 Original-Received: by pvc30 with SMTP id 30so4187603pvc.0 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2010 06:42:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=yFTV0RLY2AMGHsDoy0fBT4nkj16JpD1b96RsX+edpCQ=; b=sYwl/U1w3shGBxhZvp3+hwYFqYa2Dug9g+UUgOA4MamJ449dj3GGdFTXUBpGZlcuCb 9knjTNI8P+YP/Wkgx0K9ZaZzY3rjS+HYP0xQfBVQk8qbhyRqLepy+vz5bc9rd9z/F4Gi NB9USYZ/RLBjaUclBmkU7VUXP4yokwvt1skN0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=pvHJs1MLi69EFjfJG5wn/mfaO2Y/EoIslrwtmINBjtOYP0jRoxrUbLJM27sqQL0zP5 ItI+sm80b6fUz5/LfqIQ8VJLP5vqCKi+J1fQKzI0veMFgV99/cdT98Am5Xl7HH/OkXrC rIhu3n6+1m8Cin50+LegvNksJt8HXCfak/0bk= Original-Received: by 10.114.111.13 with SMTP id j13mr2198750wac.154.1283175758275; Mon, 30 Aug 2010 06:42:38 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.231.168.70 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Aug 2010 06:42:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-bidi@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of Emacs support for multi-directional text." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-bidi-bounces+gnu-emacs-bidi=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-bidi-bounces+gnu-emacs-bidi=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bidi:777 gmane.emacs.devel:129418 Archived-At: --===============1171077672== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636417c3d423a1b048f0aa3a7 --001636417c3d423a1b048f0aa3a7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 5:07 AM, Kenichi Handa wrote: > In article >, > Amit Aronovitch writes: > > > 1) I confirm that Arabic shaping seems to work fine on my build (27/8/10 > > rev. 101200, on Linux+X (Debian unstable)). > > > 2) Logical movement with C-f/C-b in the hello file seems fine (I do not > see > > the trap described above). > > Thank yor for testing them. > > > 3) My Arabic is very basic, and I am not familiar with Arabic computing > > (keyboards etc.) - I noticed the following points, but I am not sure what > i= > > s > > the expected behavior (I can only compare to other programs - gedit in > this > > case): > > > a) Column numbers (column-number-mode) behave strangely (I suspect that > > m17n-lib's invisible markup consume column numbers). For example as you > mov= > > e > > using C-f in the word "=D9=87=D8=B0=D8=A7" column numbers go through > "0,1,4= > > ,5" (i.e. the > > second character takes up 3 columns). If I change that to > "=D8=A8=D9=87=D8= > > =B0=D8=A7", the column > > positions are "0,1,4,6,7" (the second and third chars take up 3 and 2 > > columns resp.?). > > In gedit column positions are 1 character per column and do not depend > on > > the shaping. > > I've just committed a fix for this bug. It's not related to > m17n-lib. > > Thanks. Much better now :-) I also checked the diacritics (tashkil): It seems that they do not take up column number in Emacs. In gedit, cursor movement is similar, but the vowels there do take up column number (as for cursor movement, as in emacs: forwards/backwards skips them, while 'delete' handles them separately). I find this behavior more consistent with the way both programs handle the lam-alef ligature (one cursor-movement space, but two column numbers). However, as I said, I do not know which behavior is the most natural for Arabic users. AA --001636417c3d423a1b048f0aa3a7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 5:0= 7 AM, Kenichi Handa <handa@m17n.org> wrote:
In article <AANLkTinFrEnuW=3DoPeBqg6=3DwYegbrR+Lani2WcmDYstVO@mail.gma= il.com>, Amit Aronovitch <aronovitch@gmail.com> writes:

> 1) I confirm that Arabic shaping seems to work fine on my build (27/8/= 10
> rev. 101200, on Linux+X (Debian unstable)).

> 2) Logical movement with C-f/C-b in the hello file seems fine (I do no= t see
> the trap described above).

Thank yor for testing them.

> 3) My Arabic is very basic, and I am not familiar with Arabic computin= g
> (keyboards etc.) - I noticed the following points, but I am not = sure what i=3D
> s
> the expected behavior (I can only compare to other p= rograms - gedit in this
> case):

> =A0 a) Column numbers (column-number-mode) behave strangely (I suspect= that
> m17n-lib's invisible markup consume column numbers). For exa= mple as you mov=3D
> e
> using C-f in the word "=3DD9=3D87=3DD8=3DB0=3DD8=3DA7" colum= n numbers go through "0,1,4=3D
> ,5" (i.e. the
> second character takes up 3 columns). If I change that to "=3DD8= =3DA8=3DD9=3D87=3DD8=3D
> =3DB0=3DD8=3DA7", the column
> positions are "0,1,4,6,7" (the second and = third chars take up 3 and 2
> columns resp.?).
> =A0 In gedit column positions are 1 character per column and do not de= pend on
> the shaping.

I've just committed a fix for this bug. =A0It's not related t= o
m17n-lib.


Thanks. Much better now :-)
=
I also checked the diacritics (tashkil): It seems that they = do not take up column number in Emacs.

In gedit,= =A0cursor movement is similar, but the vowels there do take up column numbe= r (as for cursor movement, as in emacs: forwards/backwards skips them, whil= e 'delete' handles them separately). I find this behavior more cons= istent with the way both programs handle the lam-alef ligature (one cursor-= movement space, but two column numbers).
However, as I said, I do not know which behavior is the most natural f= or Arabic users.

=A0=A0 AA

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