From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Phil Hagelberg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs User Friendliness Question/Hope Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 15:50:49 -0700 Message-ID: References: <1279277325.2135.114.camel@logrus.localdomain> <1279290657.2135.131.camel@logrus.localdomain> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279320661 17448 80.91.229.12 (16 Jul 2010 22:51:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 22:51:01 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Jeff Clough , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Deniz Dogan Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 17 00:50:59 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZtkB-0000RL-G3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 00:50:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58406 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZtkA-00051t-Or for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 18:50:58 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=42513 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZtk5-00051n-34 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 18:50:54 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZtk3-0005Uy-EH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 18:50:52 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-gy0-f169.google.com ([209.85.160.169]:65295) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZtk3-0005Ur-C7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 18:50:51 -0400 Original-Received: by gyd12 with SMTP id 12so1922103gyd.0 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 15:50:49 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.151.122.8 with SMTP id z8mr2114938ybm.376.1279320649769; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 15:50:49 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.151.110.4 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 15:50:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127461 Archived-At: On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 7:38 AM, Deniz Dogan wr= ote: > 2010/7/16 Jeff Clough : >> On Fri, 2010-07-16 at 15:07 +0100, Uday S Reddy wrote: >> I don't think it's unreasonable for a new "usability" feature to check a >> global setting before doing it's magic. =C2=A0Or to otherwise be disable= d >> unless either enabled specifically or enabled via a global "make Emacs >> work like Notepad" command. =C2=A0Make it on by default, but give me a w= ay to >> turn it off with one line, as opposed to having one to three lines for >> every one of these enhancements. > > But that's easier said than done, isn't it? Where should we draw the > line between what's "new" and Notepad-ish and what's "old" and > Emacs-y? To be honest, it sounds like you're looking to add a function > to Emacs which makes it act exactly as the way you want it to. Every > Emacs user has their own taste, which is why the init files exist in > the first place. Let's not start adding what is essentially custom > user configurations to Emacs. As the author of the Emacs Starter Kit, (http://github.com/techomancy/emacs-starter-kit) I feel pretty qualified to state that there is a demand for a more user-friendly configuration for Emacs. The Starter Kit is a set of defaults and bundled libraries (including package.el) that make things a bit more useful. It includes some improved library support for Ruby, Perl, etc, enables ido-mode out of the box, and fixes some poor eshell defaults (most of which have also been fixed in 23). The point is it sidesteps the politicized process of changing the actual Emacs defaults, and it's been immensely popular; there are thousands of people using it. Once package.el stabilizes in Emacs, it's my plan to bundle up as much as I can from the Starter Kit into just another set of packages. That way people can simply select and install packages to get a good out-of-the-box experience, and the old guard can continue undisturbed. Perhaps another set could be created that target people who are used to an IDE? -Phil