From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Yair F Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Composing Hebrew diacriticals Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 23:30:17 +0300 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1278016242 3918 80.91.229.12 (1 Jul 2010 20:30:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 20:30:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Kenichi Handa Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 01 22:30:40 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OUQP5-0001p0-V9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 01 Jul 2010 22:30:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45607 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OUQP5-00073C-96 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 01 Jul 2010 16:30:35 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=47912 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OUQOu-0006tm-1A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 01 Jul 2010 16:30:28 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OUQOo-0000bJ-Di for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 01 Jul 2010 16:30:23 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-gy0-f169.google.com ([209.85.160.169]:64330) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OUQOo-0000b9-7T for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 01 Jul 2010 16:30:18 -0400 Original-Received: by gyf1 with SMTP id 1so1779552gyf.0 for ; Thu, 01 Jul 2010 13:30:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=V1E+vRulCItooay+8C4AeU49RTYUmnERdZt6JBEvd2Y=; b=Irz0duFS0TJhjoFFMXGLzHUYtTSZ+1NLNvitxkRpua6I2/8c/uyCDMR6LnuE14QNLY 2+H4YZYOrbsMwF5b+JtD8y8PNzYr2MI/+qOwAHLx5gGw5yDSZ3AWHetFTDHvU+pEJidR MCkbIVdfsPdQXPzLxBTwIJGZCDIFGajO07hxs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=fl5WRgkNMkUgt7VUZPE2AooRcsGECtYvhQnMfurY1iB55FFR7OuVJhlw2fHsHlkngy KZCa8qlCII5JPAxXAV3CnM2l7lUedWlbE8GjRB+tCylMW3nZdg8A/rGCVDmcEJ+Rwisy gu1dD7c0+MfCCxHxk9Cu2yfpT6y0bgn69Miy4= Original-Received: by 10.229.231.130 with SMTP id jq2mr6638781qcb.296.1278016217513; Thu, 01 Jul 2010 13:30:17 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.229.238.69 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Jul 2010 13:30:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:126654 Archived-At: On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Kenichi Handa wrote: > All those are glyph positioning problems and can be improved >by adding more code to hebrew-shape-gstring. What else problem do you expect? So far I see no other problems regarding bidi or compositions. > ??? When I open your hebrew-sample2.txt with oowriter, and > specify Arial font, the rendering is almost (exactly?) the > same as that of Emacs (see the attached image). urrent oo p You are right. Maybe it was with a special Hebrew oo version I don't have it now, or maybe on other OS. current oo practice is "use proper fonts" :( >I think it's a dirty & > ad-hoc hack. > > Theoretically, it is possible to do the same thing in the > function hebrew-shape-gstring. =A0But, is it really worth > doing that? =A0Isn't it enough to tell Hebrew users to use > properly desinged OpenType fonts? The sad answer on free systems is that there are nealy no such fonts. The common answer for "Why is Hebrew so ugly on Linux?" is "Install Culmus and msttcorefonts". I guess that is the reason for the twaks you mentioned. > > As Kate is a KDE application, I think it's not using Pango. > But, if it renders Hebrew with Arial well, it (or rendering > module of KDE/Qt) should have the similar ad-hoc code. Maybe, as you can see I don't know much about rending engines. An additional and possibly less ugly path is to use presentation forms when available.(UFB20) There are additional forms in the private use area.