From: Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@gmail.com>
To: ams@gnu.org
Cc: "Óscar Fuentes" <ofv@wanadoo.es>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Emacs learning curve
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:40:13 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <AANLkTik_o_XH3At9hv7x_ajdedDkT76Xq62AU-WO5iQk@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E1Obzwk-0003jT-FT@fencepost.gnu.org>
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 7:52 PM, Alfred M. Szmidt <ams@gnu.org> wrote:
> > Can we please stop with the extravagant claim that new users are
> > not attracted to emacs because of some idiosyncratic bindings?
>
> That claim is extravagant indeed. The users are not attracted by
> the idiosyncratic keybindings, they are *repelled* by them.
>
> Again, simply not true, please stop. _Your_ experience might dictate
> things that are different frommine, but claiming that users are
> "repelled' is simply not true since new users use emacs.
Of course "repelled" and "attracted" should be thought of as forces.
So the claim that users are "repelled" by the keybindings can (and
probably IMO are) true even if new users use emacs.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2010-07-22 18:40 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 349+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2010-07-12 19:18 Emacs learning curve grischka
2010-07-12 20:53 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-12 21:07 ` immanuel litzroth
2010-07-12 22:03 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-12 22:29 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-12 23:22 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-12 23:53 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-13 1:17 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-13 3:07 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-13 5:59 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-14 8:18 ` Tom
2010-07-14 9:38 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-14 10:31 ` Tom
2010-07-14 18:32 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-15 8:22 ` Miles Bader
2010-07-15 8:51 ` Tom
2010-07-15 9:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-15 9:27 ` Tom
2010-07-15 9:41 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-15 10:09 ` Tom
2010-07-15 10:24 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-15 10:31 ` Tom
2010-07-15 15:05 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-15 15:15 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-15 15:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-16 4:35 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-16 9:15 ` Uday S Reddy
2010-07-16 9:25 ` Miles Bader
2010-07-16 10:39 ` Tassilo Horn
2010-07-15 10:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-15 10:14 ` Tom
2010-07-15 10:25 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-15 10:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-16 16:56 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-16 17:12 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-16 17:27 ` Tassilo Horn
2010-07-16 17:38 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-16 18:11 ` Teemu Likonen
2010-07-16 18:23 ` Tassilo Horn
2010-07-16 20:10 ` Teemu Likonen
2010-07-16 22:16 ` Miles Bader
2010-07-17 5:45 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-16 23:07 ` Sean Sieger
2010-07-17 6:02 ` Teemu Likonen
2010-07-17 6:29 ` Tassilo Horn
2010-07-17 7:21 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-17 7:43 ` Teemu Likonen
2010-07-17 12:15 ` Juri Linkov
2010-07-17 12:27 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-17 13:01 ` John Yates
2010-07-17 16:15 ` Juri Linkov
2010-07-17 12:50 ` Andreas Schwab
2010-07-17 16:11 ` Juri Linkov
2010-07-19 19:39 ` Andy Wingo
2010-07-19 19:47 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-17 14:28 ` Uday S Reddy
2010-07-17 15:56 ` Teemu Likonen
2010-07-18 13:00 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-18 19:21 ` Teemu Likonen
2010-07-20 1:56 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-20 23:25 ` Kim F. Storm
2010-07-17 6:09 ` Tassilo Horn
2010-07-22 12:15 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-22 13:16 ` Tassilo Horn
[not found] ` <770DFAD9-23D5-4BD3-A209-7E64FFC8999C@gmail.com>
[not found] ` <201007230857.48161.tassilo@member.fsf.org>
2010-07-23 12:53 ` Ivan Andrus
2010-07-16 18:15 ` Tassilo Horn
2010-07-16 18:59 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-16 19:02 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-16 19:14 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-16 18:16 ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-22 17:52 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-22 18:04 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-22 18:38 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-22 18:40 ` Lennart Borgman [this message]
2010-07-22 22:29 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-07-16 9:04 ` Uday S Reddy
2010-07-16 19:05 ` Ivan Kanis
2010-07-16 22:26 ` Miles Bader
2010-07-17 17:08 ` Ivan Kanis
2010-07-17 17:51 ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-22 11:36 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-22 12:14 ` Tassilo Horn
2010-07-22 12:18 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-22 13:03 ` Tassilo Horn
2010-07-22 18:01 ` Ivan Kanis
2010-07-22 19:45 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-22 19:56 ` Wojciech Meyer
2010-07-22 21:58 ` Stephen Eilert
2010-07-23 6:08 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-23 6:23 ` Fren Zeee
2010-07-23 18:23 ` Dirk-Jan C. Binnema
2010-07-23 7:28 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-22 12:24 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-22 12:37 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-22 14:20 ` Davis Herring
2010-07-22 15:59 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-22 17:52 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-23 6:18 ` A more modest proposal (Was: Emacs learning curve) Daniel Colascione
2010-07-23 7:13 ` A more modest proposal David Kastrup
2010-07-23 7:20 ` A more modest proposal (Was: Emacs learning curve) Jan Djärv
2010-07-23 7:23 ` Daniel Colascione
2010-07-23 8:04 ` A more modest proposal Thien-Thi Nguyen
2010-07-23 9:19 ` A more modest proposal (Was: Emacs learning curve) Jan Djärv
2010-07-23 9:29 ` A more modest proposal Miles Bader
2010-07-23 10:39 ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-23 15:10 ` A more modest proposal (Was: Emacs learning curve) Drew Adams
2010-07-23 7:28 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-23 8:25 ` A more modest proposal Miles Bader
2010-07-23 8:47 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-23 9:00 ` Miles Bader
2010-07-23 10:25 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-23 14:02 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-07-23 14:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-23 17:29 ` Andreas Schwab
2010-07-23 14:59 ` A more modest proposal (Was: Emacs learning curve) Stephen Eilert
2010-07-23 15:33 ` A more modest proposal Chong Yidong
2010-07-17 20:09 ` Emacs learning curve Miles Bader
2010-07-17 20:30 ` Omi[cs]iroi! (was: Emacs learning curve) Drew Adams
2010-07-17 20:41 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-17 20:59 ` Deniz Dogan
2010-07-17 21:11 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-18 0:59 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-07-17 11:15 ` Emacs learning curve Dirk-Jan C. Binnema
2010-07-21 15:31 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-07-21 15:48 ` Sebastian Rose
2010-07-21 16:50 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-22 17:52 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-22 18:40 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-22 19:21 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-22 19:27 ` Wojciech Meyer
2010-07-25 12:33 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-25 14:22 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-25 14:59 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-25 16:04 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-25 20:32 ` Fabian Ezequiel Gallina
2010-07-23 17:20 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-23 17:57 ` Miles Bader
2010-07-23 18:19 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-24 3:33 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-24 4:51 ` Miles Bader
2010-07-24 11:52 ` Kim F. Storm
2010-07-24 14:09 ` Miles Bader
2010-07-25 2:07 ` David Robinow
2010-07-23 13:47 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-07-23 14:41 ` Tom
2010-07-23 16:02 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-23 17:50 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-23 18:07 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-23 20:28 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-23 22:21 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-23 23:46 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-23 23:52 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-24 1:16 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-24 1:16 ` Please take off-list [Was: Emacs learning curve] Chong Yidong
2010-07-24 14:30 ` Emacs learning curve Sean Sieger
2010-07-23 19:12 ` Tom
2010-07-24 8:55 ` Leo
2010-07-24 13:48 ` joakim
2010-07-24 17:57 ` Wojciech Meyer
2010-07-23 18:25 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-07-23 18:50 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-23 19:27 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-07-23 20:20 ` (OT) natural language speakers (was: Emacs learning curve) Drew Adams
2010-07-23 20:28 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-07-24 6:38 ` Emacs learning curve Ivan Andrus
2010-07-23 17:46 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-14 12:13 ` René Kyllingstad
2010-07-13 1:58 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-13 3:25 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-13 6:17 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-13 6:34 ` Tom
2010-07-13 8:02 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-13 8:32 ` Tom
2010-07-13 9:03 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-13 9:20 ` Tom
2010-07-13 9:19 ` immanuel litzroth
2010-07-13 11:59 ` Eric M. Ludlam
2010-07-13 12:07 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-13 12:54 ` joakim
2010-07-13 15:33 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-13 15:49 ` joakim
2010-07-13 18:02 ` Alex Ott
2010-07-13 16:12 ` David Engster
2010-07-13 16:26 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-13 18:45 ` David Engster
2010-07-14 2:49 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-14 11:43 ` Eric M. Ludlam
2010-07-14 13:06 ` David Engster
2010-07-13 17:12 ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-13 22:09 ` Eric M. Ludlam
2010-07-13 12:19 ` joakim
2010-07-13 12:41 ` Tom
2010-07-13 15:44 ` CEDET discoverability (was: Emacs learning curve) Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-13 15:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-13 16:29 ` CEDET discoverability David Kastrup
2010-07-13 17:14 ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-13 22:16 ` Eric M. Ludlam
2010-07-14 5:02 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-14 15:38 ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-14 18:48 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-14 19:32 ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-15 6:11 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-15 0:31 ` Eric M. Ludlam
2010-07-14 20:12 ` David Reitter
2010-07-14 0:50 ` Christoph
2010-07-13 22:30 ` Eric M. Ludlam
2010-07-13 22:24 ` Bruce Stephens
2010-07-13 16:43 ` CEDET (was: Emacs learning curve) Leo
2010-07-13 17:16 ` CEDET Chong Yidong
2010-07-13 20:08 ` Emacs learning curve Joe Brenner
2010-07-14 17:16 ` Richard Stallman
2010-07-13 21:01 ` Sean Sieger
2010-07-13 21:14 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-13 21:58 ` Sean Sieger
2010-07-14 10:41 ` Uday S Reddy
2010-07-14 14:03 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-14 18:36 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-12 23:28 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-13 0:18 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-13 16:54 ` Uday S Reddy
2010-07-13 23:27 ` Richard Stallman
2010-07-13 7:56 ` christian.lynbech
2010-07-13 8:10 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-13 8:44 ` joakim
2010-07-13 9:09 ` immanuel litzroth
2010-07-13 11:43 ` Eric M. Ludlam
2010-07-13 23:36 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-13 9:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-13 10:39 ` Developer contributions / was: " David Reitter
2010-07-13 22:37 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-14 0:24 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-07-14 2:32 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-14 7:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-13 9:49 ` Miles Bader
2010-07-13 23:06 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-13 13:51 ` Richard Stallman
2010-07-13 14:10 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-13 17:03 ` Uday S Reddy
2010-07-13 18:29 ` grischka
2010-07-14 17:16 ` Richard Stallman
2010-07-15 15:36 ` grischka
2010-07-29 20:46 ` Ted Zlatanov
2010-07-31 12:02 ` Sean Sieger
2010-07-31 13:32 ` martin rudalics
2010-07-31 13:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-31 15:04 ` martin rudalics
2010-08-02 14:56 ` Ted Zlatanov
2010-08-02 15:43 ` Sean Sieger
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2010-08-02 19:02 grischka
2010-07-15 15:05 grischka
2010-07-14 17:14 grischka
2010-07-14 18:05 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-15 8:33 ` Uday S Reddy
2010-07-15 13:49 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-16 1:31 ` Richard Stallman
2010-07-16 2:52 ` Miles Bader
2010-07-16 5:30 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-13 2:13 grischka
2010-07-13 5:58 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-10 19:27 MON KEY
2010-07-11 2:16 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-11 3:39 ` MON KEY
2010-07-11 11:05 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-09 19:12 Noah Lavine
2010-07-10 6:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-10 10:36 ` Tom
2010-07-10 11:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-10 11:41 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-10 15:07 ` Tom
2010-07-10 16:23 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-10 16:39 ` Deniz Dogan
2010-07-10 16:44 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-11 1:22 ` Sean Sieger
2010-07-11 8:33 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-11 11:10 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-12 16:54 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-12 17:08 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-12 17:45 ` joakim
2010-07-12 17:59 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-13 6:41 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-12 17:53 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-12 17:48 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-12 18:05 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-10 17:57 ` Tom
2010-07-10 18:32 ` Bernardo Barros
2010-07-10 21:03 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-11 8:34 ` Tom
2010-07-11 10:51 ` Sebastian Rose
2010-07-11 16:05 ` Juri Linkov
2010-07-11 16:55 ` Miles Bader
2010-07-11 17:14 ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-11 17:59 ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-07-11 18:01 ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-07-11 19:00 ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-11 19:08 ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-07-11 22:49 ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-12 7:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-12 9:00 ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-07-12 9:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-12 20:56 ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-07-11 18:00 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-11 22:49 ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-11 23:18 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-11 18:05 ` Sebastian Rose
2010-07-11 15:08 ` Drew Adams
2010-08-04 20:54 ` Walter Alejandro Iglesias
2010-08-05 17:39 ` Barry Fishman
2010-08-06 2:48 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-06 2:59 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-08-06 3:10 ` Miles Bader
2010-08-06 5:18 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-06 11:43 ` Walter Alejandro Iglesias
2010-07-10 23:22 ` Juri Linkov
2010-07-11 1:00 ` Sean Sieger
2010-07-11 1:44 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-11 2:14 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-11 2:23 ` Sean Sieger
2010-07-11 2:47 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-18 19:33 ` Giorgos Keramidas
2010-08-02 9:19 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-08-02 13:26 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-02 14:57 ` Tassilo Horn
2010-08-02 15:00 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-02 15:50 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-08-02 18:19 ` Tassilo Horn
2010-08-02 20:31 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-08-02 21:42 ` Johan Bockgård
2010-08-04 17:49 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-08-02 14:16 ` Drew Adams
2010-08-02 15:07 ` Sean Sieger
2010-08-02 15:55 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-08-02 20:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-08-02 21:11 ` Drew Adams
2010-08-02 18:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-02 18:37 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-08-02 19:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-02 20:02 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-08-03 5:57 ` David Kastrup
2010-08-02 18:39 ` Tom
2010-08-02 18:43 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-08-02 19:53 ` joakim
2010-08-03 22:07 ` Eric M. Ludlam
2010-08-04 9:13 ` David Kastrup
2010-08-04 9:42 ` Alex Ott
2010-08-03 3:33 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-03 18:45 ` Andy Wingo
2010-08-04 12:36 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-07-10 15:01 ` Noah Lavine
2010-07-08 7:44 Efforts to attract more users? joakim
2010-07-09 3:05 ` Richard Stallman
2010-07-09 7:33 ` Emacs learning curve (was Re: Efforts to attract more users?) christian.lynbech
2010-07-09 7:43 ` Emacs learning curve Masatake YAMATO
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