From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stuart Hacking Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Bikeshedding go! Why is unbound? Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 22:53:11 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87sjx7z7w4.fsf@telefonica.net> <83pqsbmf6j.fsf@gnu.org> <87k4ijz07h.fsf@telefonica.net> <2460D97DEA4047B3B9DF92C4A80981EF@us.oracle.com> <57BF13882D6E494286547F293FE9D03B@us.oracle.com> <87lj2pfo81.fsf@wanadoo.es> <12B9F2D504D54D759E43154D6084E77D@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1294959229 520 80.91.229.12 (13 Jan 2011 22:53:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 22:53:49 +0000 (UTC) Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= , emacs-devel@gnu.org, Lennart Borgman , Stefan Monnier , Deniz Dogan To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 13 23:53:42 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PdW33-0000pK-5U for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 23:53:41 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42134 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PdW32-0004me-Iv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 17:53:40 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=59722 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PdW2x-0004l3-NJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 17:53:36 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PdW2w-0001Wo-I4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 17:53:35 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pz0-f41.google.com ([209.85.210.41]:53480) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PdW2w-0001WX-2b for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 17:53:34 -0500 Original-Received: by pzk27 with SMTP id 27so360695pzk.0 for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 14:53:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=iMKzUwY1avG1Fem4fiCFoz5SfFxaBlFmYH1h3gd+V3M=; b=rZ2LWHhXuHC2FVZV1GCc8wMPFgQT4sNJfHaKQKqZVXJCzgRE6Q5T8BbV1+YjWspEGs ETGAt/CSZaaiF8eo+QdDfpesykRzvm+qEzptP6rzM9y+JIt85fNdRFFT8oob2yeyohrc 12mIXBzz7B6ZGXv6rGP325eM3Ple3JnP9e/CI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=YbR8QyAwVQFlLhZwgilNwpX7i6q4bI2Yy1xiJm59mQGMUaYHBW0HDE5c+tN5pfd8CM dDZqb5mh2kxC9IuoBknAoRkKXsPeyDIh0Wj0PmHPrnnolSMhlK/se98ypPGtPh+SKewZ kGtUhiOjvoO70JrvkaHfGzXL54J5P79a+zZx4= Original-Received: by 10.142.178.17 with SMTP id a17mr119533wff.171.1294959212000; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 14:53:32 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.143.10.14 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 14:53:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <12B9F2D504D54D759E43154D6084E77D@us.oracle.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:134502 Archived-At: On 13 January 2011 22:18, Drew Adams wrote: > What is the reason for Emacs to bind Alt-f4 (or M-f4) to behavior that ag= rees > with what Alt-f4 does outside Emacs? > > Is the reason for this (a) user convenience? =C2=A0Or is it (b) because w= ith some > window mgrs we _cannot_ do otherwise (they always grab Alt-f4)? > > If the latter (b) is the only reason, then I don't see that as a good rea= son to > force the same restriction on Emacs when used with other window mgrs that= do not > grab it. =C2=A0If Gnome and KDE forced Emacs to paint everything bright y= ellow, would > we think it's appropriate to force the same thing on all other platforms? If [Alt-F4] quits Emacs in Gnome and KDE then one would expect the same behaviour in Windows. This is from a user experience point of view, regardless of whether the event is caught before or after Emacs sees it. A user unfamiliar with Emacs will go for what they know, and when it doesn't work they'll go straight back to vim. Is that what you want? Misery and Suffering? ;-) > If the reason is instead for user convenience (a), so the same key does t= he same > thing inside and outside Emacs, then why stop with this key? =C2=A0There = are lots and > lots of other window-mgr keys that we could force upon Emacs as default b= indings > - for similar "user convenience". =C2=A0Shall we do them all? I don't think it's necessary to implement every default keybinding, but I think [Alt-F4] has become established enough that it's worthwhile. Will CUA mode bind things like [Alt-F4]? I have never used it - Perhaps CUA mode should be used for all of these general purpose shortcuts? Personally, I think b) provides a good enough reason: To try and maintain behavioural consistency across platforms.