From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Bernardo Barros Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: keyboard politics [Was: Key bindings proposal] Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 12:22:13 -0300 Message-ID: References: <0MA8Ib-1OdzCU08CX-00BIlN@mx.perfora.net> <4C670917.2040709@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1281974466 1232 80.91.229.12 (16 Aug 2010 16:01:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:01:06 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Uday S Reddy Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 16 18:01:03 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ol27T-0006Nh-4Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 18:01:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58065 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ol1xj-0000t2-JZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 11:50:59 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=51023 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ol1pZ-00020E-Nj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 11:42:36 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ol1Vu-0005Ur-IQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 11:22:15 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-vw0-f41.google.com ([209.85.212.41]:48999) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ol1Vu-0005Ul-FY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 11:22:14 -0400 Original-Received: by vws16 with SMTP id 16so3902691vws.0 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:22:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=zWcey2i9uSBVTpfZt1CMUC4QrNf4Bc1R8VABHeSRxnc=; b=Q67GDnLvaD4VGrV8CGhgzg0X5MMctk9/DksRkrKcrx0ZTP4IrrKThUCKJ2jgRJcPKI GR/xQvh9ucwr1OMbRIsE0Z+3KPZIb8Kj2039LtYAuzUwXYx7L6AW8FpuA3Va7mFuIxTG IalC4xnv+9O3ca8OOgbZw5HO+7l+bFYJwX3Uc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=R/It4+Qyh8e6PpPSrNeQMcB8kWhOmUYU6q3IMhbKqjkAOurZsf6P3dY9bl7+eM5/91 qpJfq2LjtnxtASSE3aSHEyjGWsYULFDbWoiR1LqAr+FajsO8od5shuu1qwgCYkK6I60q lcH6sHRKhTjH6UgY1hUhncEHnzOufAwsZzwF8= Original-Received: by 10.220.123.33 with SMTP id n33mr3332320vcr.64.1281972133700; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:22:13 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.220.84.71 with HTTP; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:22:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:128803 Archived-At: I would buy a simple GNU key to replace the Windows key in my thinkpad... (if I can replace a simple key from the keyboard, I don't know if it is possible) 2010/8/16 Uday S Reddy : > On 8/14/2010 10:22 PM, Xah Lee wrote: > >> the way i'm guessing how the Win logo became common in PC keyboard is >> this: >> >> Microsoft invented the key and logo (probably influenced by Apple), and >> place >> it on the keyboard they manufacture, as well integrated in their OS for >> use of >> that key. Perhaps in a year or two, other keyboard manufactures, in >> competition >> with Microsoft's hardware department, also wanted to have that key, >> because >> MS's OS is very popular. > > Well, at the time (Microsoft natural keyboard in 1994 and the first > successful Windows build in 1995), Microsoft's OS wasn't exactly "popular= ". > =C2=A0Many corporations were using Mac's, and Microsoft had to wean them = back to > the PC. > > Yes, it is plausible that Microsoft introduced the windows key in its own > keyboard and probably copied Apple in doing so. =C2=A0(This is by no mean= s the > biggest thing they copied from Apple in the 90's!). > > However, the windows key in its original form was just a start button. > =C2=A0Notice this in your own picture. > > =C2=A0http://xahlee.org/emacs/ms_keyboard/ms_natural_keyboard.html > > I found the O'Reilly "Windows 95 in a Nutshell" guide on my bookshelf > (still!) and verified that invoking the start menu was all that the windo= ws > key did originally. =C2=A0I remember going, "why do they have such a sill= y key in > such a strategic location?" > > So, you can understand my disrespect for the Microsoft windows key. =C2= =A0Not > only was it copied from Apple (as we are guessing), but also rather stupi= dly > copied. =C2=A0Now, it is possible that the Microsoft's keyboard division = (which > was quite good) and the Windows division (which was trying hard to catch = up) > were out of sync and the stupidity wasn't intentional. =C2=A0It is also p= ossible > that Microsoft just found an opportunity to push its brand and used it. > >> i'm not sure if there's anything explicitly sinister about how it came t= o >> became so popular. > > If you have read any of the documents in the Microsoft antitrust case, yo= u > will definitely change your mind about the "sinister" bit. =C2=A0Microsof= t > bullied a whole industry into submission. =C2=A0Yes, a keyboard manufactu= rer > doesn't have to put the windows key or logo, but if they posed a threat t= o > Microsoft dominance, Microsoft knew how to bring them in line. > > ------ > > Coming back to the point of discussion, since Microsoft never designed > complete systems like Apple did, their OS and keyboard are loosely couple= d. > =C2=A0One doesn't have to use the windows key to use Windows, or to use i= t > effectively. =C2=A0Since the OS cannot depend on the presence of the wind= ows key, > it can't put essential functions on it, only conveniences. =C2=A0There is= no > reason why the users can't use it for different purposes if they want to. > =C2=A0And, there is no reason why Emacs shouldn't take full control of it= to > serve its users' needs. > > Cheers, > Uday > > >