From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [External] : Re: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2024 05:20:09 +0300 Message-ID: <9f5d00a8-1580-4b9e-8dd3-4c696e2f458a@gutov.dev> References: <644140db-9ad5-44b5-a598-e7d2edb7d42b@gutov.dev> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="3428"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cc: Stefan Kangas , Stefan Monnier , Daniel Colascione , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" To: Drew Adams , Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 02 04:21:24 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sOT91-0000gB-Bd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 02 Jul 2024 04:21:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sOT7z-00015o-2H; Mon, 01 Jul 2024 22:20:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sOT7x-00015b-Qo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Jul 2024 22:20:18 -0400 Original-Received: from fout2-smtp.messagingengine.com ([103.168.172.145]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sOT7w-0005Ob-Av for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Jul 2024 22:20:17 -0400 Original-Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailfout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F91313804B1; Mon, 1 Jul 2024 22:20:14 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 01 Jul 2024 22:20:14 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gutov.dev; h=cc :cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm1; t=1719886814; x=1719973214; bh=UvcTattZC55chi8H+/BX/o9E/Qp2nRSmr6gtIoEzQ1w=; b= RSW/ky6MEaxyiDCmemeU9wSIk0IjZXSRksDTpaM98IR6bvS1Pv8inSjqfTxNNN8X njmdUCQmPD8c1nSeDzgcytP+mkGru9LhL4JFPvwhrM5xHR5I7UHDxQkoOQUdaFoo 02PutevuWaDoPnhweJdzqZbwNAws/sFspUI3EFZxsIqwganP7v5p6HMDS/PCiTyD TmaLC9Mk9uCsldDkelzmVT2EBDPFjZiUt76yf6vrEj6zlulq5P3c/MlsgYPPR0kY GiLvkWzx3ebIcfwy57lhBRhXvPG+UBQUkPlo19J1FfIAOpkxqLJlJYNQTgC8aK4G AG7+QW9SOkt6mxWwYw9xmg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; t=1719886814; x= 1719973214; bh=UvcTattZC55chi8H+/BX/o9E/Qp2nRSmr6gtIoEzQ1w=; b=Y 5oVho2StC11MGtKq3EAXP0B5SNyZWnDKdcyBlFx/fApKuQoCGOPP+4x7HUIqoJmD U14+1riraSgCqzFWBykyBtyTCLbV1w+CDiQFHyXqYq6bD71rmRBqfoVAe8lKfoEW 8AtBVEvG/HPZUhXHTT5insOsLfNNZwwVHo6lFN3Eby9Ky0QVJaNr++/YIA4keE+c ycc5iIVsVzgD/TEVKjatdURWyBXgh65liGp6mRVNk5pvF6nXxELG2fPK6GZreZ2h tEN+YHkG9v7iCcXPwkv/PE0wnjb6oJqKn6OwRagOMoxS99acex135j9YybbUZKKL bVJTdSf6mkMR777woU2kw== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeeftddrudeggdehiecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpefkffggfgfuvfevfhfhjggtgfesthejredttddvjeenucfhrhhomhepffhmihht rhihucfiuhhtohhvuceoughmihhtrhihsehguhhtohhvrdguvghvqeenucggtffrrghtth gvrhhnpeetudeljeegheetgfehgeejkeeuhedvveeikeeufedtvddtveefhfdvveegudej heenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegumh hithhrhiesghhuthhovhdruggvvh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i0e71465a:Fastmail Original-Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 1 Jul 2024 22:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=103.168.172.145; envelope-from=dmitry@gutov.dev; helo=fout2-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:321079 Archived-At: On 02/07/2024 04:51, Drew Adams wrote: >>> Yes, but... Every time we do this, we're upsetting_sombody_'s work >>> flow. I don't see any way of getting this increased freedom to change. >> Somebody mentioned telemetry in this thread earlier, apparently it was >> not received well. But some consistent way of polling users might help. >> Sometime later when we establish one. > As I replied to Alan, adding another default key > binding doesn't necessarily upset anyone's workflow > (though it typically does hit someone somewhere). I think he's asking a valid question I've had to ponder on multiple occasions myself: when the backward compatibility promise is so strong that we never end up deleting anything (roughly speaking), we have to think real hard when adding any new thing.