From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Daniel Colascione Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: PL support Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 20:07:27 -0700 Message-ID: <9f1e538a-eb34-8d65-b3bb-87fd2f3690cf@dancol.org> References: <9mmFgzvrBwjt_n_VJyaJdXINraNi5HsGpwq-0MLeKiJA7kG2BQA4uywrzjyz7lpRS0OZDpjEi8lspOKYUA7P_QsODsDew_8nbH960G55fmY=@protonmail.com> <83pnbegsvm.fsf@gnu.org> <83imh5hby1.fsf@gnu.org> <2e4e8ce9-d857-f3e3-31cf-a40dee67bd25@yandex.ru> <83y2q1dsvh.fsf@gnu.org> <2468efa6-7dbd-8634-44cc-586bb6985f49@yandex.ru> <83pnbddrfd.fsf@gnu.org> <83k11ldpxs.fsf@gnu.org> <83imh5dnun.fsf@gnu.org> <2c09354e7994f0e61271ab0078256a9dc4202171.camel@k-7.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="94431"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 Cc: seb@k-7.ch, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org, Yuan Fu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 11 05:10:06 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jXypR-000OTK-O0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 05:10:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36636 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXypQ-0000oI-M0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 23:10:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52950) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXymy-0007kN-Sd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 23:07:32 -0400 Original-Received: from dancol.org ([2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:adf3]:60984) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXymx-0007LD-Ba; Sun, 10 May 2020 23:07:32 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dancol.org; s=x; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Date: Message-ID:From:References:Cc:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=UQ6rIVbYnSYFC721j43RsKbCkJm3ZcLpduJ0I4FCeqY=; b=oY8gfct4ACH8yMXwWsa/IRJKmP x1kaYLlf25VQYBQ1uFn5RqprP0EC/FxxJf5EDvUBihFfPrOYJWHLBpsg0dhawRvabHJ09GviuSZJE bvE+dPLilCO/9x2His/PGzUbmAL342YEUIfZcYCjg+Aqw07YIh0LSKJPiGzo9A4OtE+E9oROrHhI6 tqpcz3zsXe+etL7pt4TMvXOLovb+TBCVDVpdNL1cfc/k/+nuMVOWAlhjOoE8MAL8w3d2wbkPwHHsi bOpIwCpRN9A4hhmFA8hVrSU7cDPCcmvxSFHxNKG5RU6jjJs/DktYSMnyiMRNt+QhqRqz3bWOnLk5t yzjgZqeQ==; Original-Received: from [2604:4080:1321:9a00:3d60:5fe6:8cb4:e9e6] by dancol.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1jXymu-0003Os-CC; Sun, 10 May 2020 20:07:28 -0700 In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:adf3; envelope-from=dancol@dancol.org; helo=dancol.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: 12 X-Spam_score: 1.2 X-Spam_bar: + X-Spam_report: (1.2 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_SBL_CSS=3.335, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:249754 Archived-At: On 5/10/20 7:35 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > Some contributors are eagerly planning a sort of automatic facility to > "install external tools." I'm disappointed to have to say that this > raises problems at various levels. I doubt there is an acceptable way > to do it. And more and more, a modern editing experience requires working with shared infrastructure like LSP servers. If someone downloads Emacs and it doesn't even approximate a modern editing experience out-of-the-box, people are going to use other, less-free or non-free tools. The moral purity of a program doesn't matter if it has no impact, and a program with no users has no impact. You seem to be imagining a world in which Emacs installing external software means that it runs distribution package manager tools or plops binaries in /usr/bin. You can instead bundle known-good versions of external tools with Emacs and run them in a controlled way from filesystem locations that Emacs controls. Downloading revisions of these tools that hash to entries on an Emacs whitelist is equivalent.