From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Fernando Botelho Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: i18n - Revisited Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 17:34:09 -0300 Organization: F123 Message-ID: <9a6be6f9-e4b6-7ce0-6ae5-84a499692b0f@F123.org> References: <6cbd415b-4436-d1a4-4476-507ba87a6f07@F123.org> <2e7fbaec-f580-0560-c526-39c8432aa94d@F123.org> <0A104310-243B-4435-8B04-703123C094DE@gmail.com> <707ecda9-3700-bd87-9df8-630de8d9806d@F123.org> <831ssdob4y.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Fernando.Botelho@F123.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1493325264 5615 195.159.176.226 (27 Apr 2017 20:34:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:34:24 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 Cc: jean.christophe.helary@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 27 22:34:17 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d3q7E-0001Hx-RO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 22:34:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34101 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d3q7K-0002rP-LD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 16:34:22 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52036) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d3q7E-0002r7-D6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 16:34:17 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d3q7B-0005Gp-Am for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 16:34:16 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qt0-x244.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::244]:36444) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d3q7B-0005Gd-5V; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 16:34:13 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-qt0-x244.google.com with SMTP id t52so5984901qtb.3; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:34:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:reply-to:subject:references:to:cc:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=sWQsChcxQab0XbpzidTNFIL60Cc+pFqBEnedVIyLxEQ=; b=tBjKlwnAcfMLVjEvWHC4eG6G8ec8WvCXGXuJEhZM1NcJj4LJZI9cH3YHcQB786oPK9 +IDWQYil+ld3rr6oh+fWeX1LCjeaytQlfrlsxVVdPeuhwYe2Wfvs1Y5qzXJjPIdrDydi eNnYhBSZtiBbrfwlv2ZaWfuNY47AOGTjevL3o6kxjDoTZ0+m01vZJfdorFjP/fDpN/+s 7vdtQj4yq/B/S8jkupttzAU8rOe51qvgIr/l2UHLkBcx+WfKzm9cJhP5OfyQddgGLNu2 vog6cu5s1/pkPuHaMGQ1P/6+SUZ6ay86BfPcMztLOEIfRh1yd2iFiPFm75Vk00Vk6aKp KtbA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:reply-to:subject:references:to:cc:from :organization:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=sWQsChcxQab0XbpzidTNFIL60Cc+pFqBEnedVIyLxEQ=; b=kZ/iQnagmWByTYdXKfnn7MifiENujb17FU5PBIEvRkHyA6OYl8BBNTrF1kXPluahi2 P1LaFPQEjada7NSSHY7SojA0HjQD6p6KFszQeu038pBSzvVThZugD5PnZxrqn7oJPl6J PTraRfEIv3PCPmIbiw8yA9H+UWMDpifah35Ia0J9zKLJ546mDyHh/lASwpDBHrkQQDLJ mlB44hIJQZR0XNlhO6pmuLoulvFuMZYw7DwDyf5w/oiTVX6hJwW4zMgmmdLF+WBZUORt 1Y8QJEEWGNY47D5SP6X5GVVqlTqM8oCMtY/vo1jHMUQ/WqypQmm/pADljEovUWz6tgxf DWlg== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/54rJIgZWs5glGZSJUt6P0Yq6fOLL4k3o05bIjCryCvnxmYwVZ3 f+mn63nkcjJC4g== X-Received: by 10.200.58.70 with SMTP id w64mr6650491qte.174.1493325252476; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:34:12 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.100.5] ([177.92.42.140]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id u63sm2255398qkh.45.2017.04.27.13.34.10 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:34:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <831ssdob4y.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::244 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:214365 Archived-At: Thanks for the clarification. I am sorry for my unfair characterization based on incomplete information. I will look for a way to contribute somehow. Fernando On 04/27/2017 05:20 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Fernando Botelho >> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:24:20 -0300 >> >> "I participated to a discussion here about that a few years ago and the >> answer I got was "people who use emacs know English (or should) so there >> is no need for l10n in the UI"..." >> >> Sad. There is maybe a billion persons around the world that deserve and >> could access the productivity of Emacs and lack the language skill to >> work in English. >> >> I recognize the attitude and short-sightedness, I was just not expecting >> to find it here. > Beware: you are making conclusions from a single citation out of what > was a very long discussion with different issues brought up. I > suggest that you read that discussion yourself, before making up your > mind. > > AFAIR, the main issue was not as expressed by the above citation, but > some fundamental problems with localizing Emacs. Some of those > problems, off the top of my head: > > . command names are deliberately English, and probably always will be > . built-in documentation is partially automatically produced from the > command and variable names, and from the code which implements them > (e.g., some UI elements visible on display come directly from > symbol names, which are in English) > . part of the doc strings are in C sources, part in Lisp > . l10n of unbundled packages presents additional issues, out of > control for the project > . Emacs has an awful lot of doc strings, so translating them, even > after the other problems are solved, is a humongously large job > > The project's position is that work in these areas is very welcome, > but it's quite clear that a group of very motivated individuals will > have to materialize in order to make it happen.