From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Updated proposal for DEL to delete active region Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 17:30:50 -0700 Message-ID: <9FFF03C06E824A4EB7488DBD9A9138A9@us.oracle.com> References: <87ljbbbzl1.fsf@stupidchicken.com><611EBC8A88E34310966D561E92C6B1B3@us.oracle.com> <87ljbby08e.fsf@stupidchicken.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1274574766 27121 80.91.229.12 (23 May 2010 00:32:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 23 May 2010 00:32:46 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "'Chong Yidong'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun May 23 02:32:44 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OFz7N-0003x2-FM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 23 May 2010 02:32:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32806 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OFz7M-0004gL-OI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 22 May 2010 20:32:36 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=46615 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OFz7F-0004gD-T8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 22 May 2010 20:32:31 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OFz7E-0004YN-2b for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 22 May 2010 20:32:29 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:62086) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OFz7D-0004YG-Sa for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 22 May 2010 20:32:28 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o4N0WO2V014173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 23 May 2010 00:32:26 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o4MLgMpH008397; Sun, 23 May 2010 00:32:24 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt019.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 290560911274574628; Sat, 22 May 2010 17:30:28 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.175.220.217) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 22 May 2010 17:30:28 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87ljbby08e.fsf@stupidchicken.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 Thread-Index: Acr6CBrPDUplgkhMR7yxXPTeTHhoBwAAPFXw X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-Source-IP: acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090206.4BF8779A.0141:SCFMA922111,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:125091 Archived-At: > > So we now break any existing code that counts on `delete-char' > > or `delete-backward-char' being key-bound. In particular, > > customizations (e.g. key remappings) involving those commands > > no longer work. > > Yes, this is a clear downside. I'm glad we agree on that. > > So instead of having one such var per command (bad), or one var > > for all such commands (bad), or using a property on a command > > symbol such as delsel does (good), we now have two new commands > > whose implementations hard-code this feature (bad). The new > > commands and the new option hard-code each other. > > First, the goal is not to replace delete-selection mode. It's to > eliminate the special-case handling of mouse selections Yes, I know. And I agree with that initiative. I was against that special case from the beginning. I think you are going beyond mouse-selection in the proposed change, however. > and make active selections behave more consistently. (I'm not sure what that means, so I can't speak to it.) > Second, a huge number of commands already hard-code specific > behavior when Transient Mark mode is active. That's the point > of Transient Mark mode. That might be, but I don't think it's the same kind of behavior. That `query-replace' might behave differently depending on whether there is an active region is one thing. That doesn't affect basic editing commands and their traditional keys. When you replace the bindings of the basic character-deletion commands it can affect any mode or user code that remaps those commands. I didn't even mention that the proposal changes the behavior of `delete-backward-char'. I didn't notice that part of the proposal at first reading. IIUC, That would break any code (or interactive use) that invokes `delete-backward-char' and expects it to untabify. Can we not please find some other way to simply "eliminate the special-case handling of mouse selections"? What about going back to the code that was there before that feature was added?