From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: update intro to Emacs Lisp programming Date: Thu, 17 May 2018 20:38:42 +0900 Message-ID: <97CEED22-57CE-4715-9239-1557F38AD994@gmail.com> References: <80DB6796-41FE-4090-B1DD-BF5AE3F4D0CF@scratch.space> <83zi16ofny.fsf@gnu.org> <6A8BB190-FA64-4697-AFDA-EFBEB4886230@scratch.space> <90addb33-6797-b203-4a67-a2a6c201bd81@cs.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.3 \(3445.6.18\)) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C0B944B4-98CC-4A4A-B77F-17D9C972012C" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1526559507 4585 195.159.176.226 (17 May 2018 12:18:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 17 May 2018 12:18:27 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Van L , Emacs developers To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu May 17 14:18:23 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fJHrN-00010G-1f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 17 May 2018 14:18:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53130 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fJHtU-0004yV-7G for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 17 May 2018 08:20:28 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56869) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fJHrx-00049e-Pc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 17 May 2018 08:18:54 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fJHrs-0006mT-Qj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 17 May 2018 08:18:53 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pl0-x22f.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c01::22f]:43054) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fJHrs-0006mB-L8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 17 May 2018 08:18:48 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pl0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id c41-v6so2440909plj.10 for ; Thu, 17 May 2018 05:18:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=Sm2rN0t0SU/nDzzrrJuVDmJAvE9hzhxR1Qy0Qkq2ToE=; b=JlyOqQZD83K/RfMuHV3dH3bKKGEckoKn25252kZSvMxAnjm+7Z/rwvg2XaJ0MVLeas Ajp0fIknGxWLg+ni/myflEdXgysc6Qjazth18ZNJgPlbf79BsyOly2xzk4Hpmrglnrs9 Zr2qO2XHEDDhzoIAZmQpQicnoHYaVTSzDMk5w7VZUTXXAKjyOKnqSGiKT0AmilmRGvMn vanhnSp/2D+eQN4twZk+1ZvnVnnoFt4vHzQ0pKOBWnn8L/gkHOeQelwSuX6g+2rraBiA MkSGN4JgZbnIvfPEoLEbDV55uoHu1Istnhag/L06Za98CrCpWpIMgivxxQ5INnJavveX HK5w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=Sm2rN0t0SU/nDzzrrJuVDmJAvE9hzhxR1Qy0Qkq2ToE=; b=blBCutHo3sK7oAXnAeNTcqHU8q0FiN5VwJMYD+5Tl5evpNCJSf54YbT3BqWZ9NHo27 ZVEr9hV46vH/Zhto2498i8tBxTq9K8oJR2eNrt6M9v9Ke9bxNVGmGXZefBhyRSO4t0lD +E15BWIklg59SPiawGpHlANVW5pcsrom/hk7MsUcZCdDlKH8ADXU7sgpYMjRo6lQnSQC BT2+d5V0MUCTMUaR0+lSFY52O4rdEYT5gsfpbzvZa38NRgukR/7UJl6Kzl7vYDzTwAST VpRRYEXB7PgzoA6ZnpTOeXVTYM2kdclhmALk54/rqM3xik0TxEjbQJJ5xgyPqizCvT+p z7PQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALKqPwceiAjiRQ0xWJU/ES+u3q3zUhoCCeiSyTATdRpKnrzHuz1q+MuI maEIFpKJPVo07XXgKWMSnqY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AB8JxZqtAlFm67i5IxmzIzHvu6HZ7KD6EXn34AtDu6CXLj7xSlHs9a8eg/2vC6kw1UJbddyRkbijVg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:a716:: with SMTP id w22-v6mr4842199plq.215.1526559527510; Thu, 17 May 2018 05:18:47 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.7] (pl31219.ag0304.nttpc.ne.jp. [111.89.224.243]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f9-v6sm6630973pgq.24.2018.05.17.05.18.45 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 17 May 2018 05:18:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <90addb33-6797-b203-4a67-a2a6c201bd81@cs.ucla.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.6.18) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c01::22f X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:225362 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail=_C0B944B4-98CC-4A4A-B77F-17D9C972012C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On May 17, 2018, at 10:12, Paul Eggert wrote: >=20 > On 05/16/2018 05:25 PM, Van L wrote: >> The intro is almost 300 pages in full. I had expected 60 pages. >=20 > This is an important point in its own right. Could you write a = simplified introduction that is only 50 pages or so? That would be = helpful to many potential users, I'd think. The problem with the introduction is that it was written when = programming was only starting to be a skill "normal" people could have = access to. So the text is extremely verbose and is sometimes hard to = follow because of that. The gist of the document could be summarized in = 50 pages. Jean-Christophe Helary ----------------------------------------------- http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune --Apple-Mail=_C0B944B4-98CC-4A4A-B77F-17D9C972012C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

On May 17, 2018, at 10:12, Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> = wrote:

On 05/16/2018 05:25 PM, Van L wrote:
The intro is almost 300 pages in full. I had = expected 60 pages.

This is an = important point in its own right. Could you write a simplified = introduction that is only 50 pages or so? That would be helpful to many = potential users, I'd think.

The = problem with the introduction is that it was written when programming = was only starting to be a skill "normal" people could have access to. So = the text is extremely verbose and is sometimes hard to follow because of = that. The gist of the document could be summarized in 50 = pages.


Jean-Christophe Helary
-----------------------------------------------
http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune


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