From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: How to opt out of curly-quote spamming altogether? Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 10:29:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <971f6dbd-dee5-4c58-8a67-a001a3d540c3@default> References: <> <<83fv38hfsx.fsf@gnu.org>> <55DB4FC7.5050109@cs.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1440437393 24784 80.91.229.3 (24 Aug 2015 17:29:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 17:29:53 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 24 19:29:41 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZTvYy-0003Nz-FF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 19:29:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55763 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZTvYx-0005f0-RG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 13:29:39 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39472) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZTvYt-0005eR-H5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 13:29:36 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZTvYq-0000OW-93 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 13:29:35 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:20744) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZTvYq-0000OO-2q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 13:29:32 -0400 Original-Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t7OHTM19032534 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 24 Aug 2015 17:29:23 GMT Original-Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t7OHTMPT011656 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 Aug 2015 17:29:22 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t7OHTMEZ013636; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 17:29:22 GMT In-Reply-To: <55DB4FC7.5050109@cs.ucla.edu> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.69 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:189115 Archived-At: > > In that case, can Emacs please provide doc produced both ways, and > > let users choose the appearance they want? >=20 > That would make for more complexity and size in maintenance, > distribution and installation, for little benefit to most users. You decide how much benefit it is to users? How about letting them decide, themselves? Give them the choice, please. > With either the old or the new info quoting styles you need to > translate quotes when copying to StackExchange, so I suggest > writing a bit of specialized Elisp code to translate these quotes > exactly the way you like. Not interested. And no, I don't use Emacs for this. I will continue to manually copy and paste, even if curly quotes make the quote-mark fixup twice the effort. I typically provide a link to the appropriate node in the online (HTML) manual, and I quote a portion of the text from that node in the post. Had Emacs chosen `...` instead of curly quotes, as Andreas suggested several times (likely tongue-in-cheek), there would be no change needed. And had Emacs left its classic `...' in place, there would be only half as many quote changes needed. I will make such changes, but I doubt if many other SE users will bother to. The result will be that inline code will *not* be set off as different from ordinary text in such posts. Emacs doc will look worse in this context, and more importantly, code fragments (function names and such) will not stand out at all, detracting from reader understanding. But this is a minor point. The real point in this connection is that such setting-off of inline code fragments is semantic. Different systems use different syntax/techniques to do it. Choosing curly quotes for this is about the worst thing Emacs could do - they are used pretty much nowhere for this purpose, and for good reason: curly quotes quote ordinary text. They are not a good vehicle for setting off inline code. This is the case whether you realize it now or not. The question is not just one of looking "modern" by showing that Emacs too can use curly quotes. That's a sad attempt to show how "modern" Emacs is, I'm afraid. Emacs will get no converts because the "retro look" of `...' is replaced by the "modern" curly-quoting of inline code.