From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alexandre Garreau Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: persistent data feature Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2021 21:41:15 +0100 Message-ID: <9717455.y8id3zt1aD@galex-713.eu> References: <87tufmjyai.fsf@gnus.org> <875yrvgchu.fsf@logand.com> <83sfuyq4oo.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4762"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 11 21:42:06 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mw9C1-000109-K0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 11 Dec 2021 21:42:05 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58104 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mw9Bz-0002J9-TX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 11 Dec 2021 15:42:03 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35264) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mw9BM-0001eN-KB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Dec 2021 15:41:24 -0500 Original-Received: from [2a00:5884:8305::1] (port=36434 helo=galex-713.eu) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mw9BK-0005FV-V0; Sat, 11 Dec 2021 15:41:24 -0500 Original-Received: from gal by galex-713.eu with local (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1mw9BD-001iVu-Qo; Sat, 11 Dec 2021 21:41:15 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83sfuyq4oo.fsf@gnu.org> X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a00:5884:8305::1 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:5884:8305::1; envelope-from=galex-713@galex-713.eu; helo=galex-713.eu X-Spam_score_int: -10 X-Spam_score: -1.1 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:281706 Archived-At: Le sabato, 11-a de decembro 2021 21-a horo kaj 15:03 CET, vous avez =C3=A9c= rit=20 : > > From: Tomas Hlavaty > > Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2021 20:36:29 +0100 > >=20 > > Also I find the trend of linking everything into the emacs process >=20 > > concerning: > What's the alternative? to reinvent all the wheels in Emacs's own > code? to use external programs? something else? Rejecting a trend for > which there are no better alternatives is not smart. >=20 >=20 >=20 > > $ ldd .emacs-27.2 | wc -l > > 107 >=20 > Did you try comparing this with other similar applications? under debian stable (please note I have emacs 27.1, and it doesn=E2=80=99t = include=20 sqlite, for some reason): $ ldd /usr/bin/nano | wc -l 6 $ ldd /usr/bin/zile | wc -l 9 $ ldd /usr/bin/vim | wc -l 92 $ ldd /usr/bin/vim.tiny | wc -l 9 $ ldd /usr/bin/vim.nox | wc -l 22 $ ldd /usr/bin/vim.gtk3 | wc -l 92 $ ldd /usr/bin/pluma | wc -l 83 $ ldd /usr/bin/gedit | wc -l 85 $ ldd /usr/bin/kwrite | wc -l 107 $ ldd /usr/bin/kate | wc -l 109 $ ldd /usr/bin/codeblocks | wc -l 94 So indeed. I wanted to reinstall geany, gnome-builder and qtcreator to compare with=20 standard IDEs, but all three triggered to install clang=E2=80=A6 I think, given not all users of emacs are programmers, using it as an IDE= =E2=80=A6=20 and not all emacsian programmers using its IDE capabilities, it shouldn=E2= =80=99t=20 be compared to qtcreator or codeblocks, but rather to vim (with which it=20 is in legendary competition). However, gtk vim is not so light in=20 comparison (it=E2=80=99s even more heavy than gedit!) While GNU Zile, the stripped down emacs (with only some lisp and lua=20 support, but without packages) is equal or simpler than vim, in terms of=20 dependencies. We could also compare with mit-scheme (6 libraries),=20 because it provides Edwin, a scheme emacs.