From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Documenting buffer display Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 08:22:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <969a77ef-233b-428f-bf08-dba31d7cb895@default> References: <5BCB1D82.3020108@gmx.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1540048864 18409 195.159.176.226 (20 Oct 2018 15:21:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 15:21:04 +0000 (UTC) To: martin rudalics , emacs-devel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 20 17:20:59 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gDt3i-0004ed-Gl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 17:20:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55676 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gDt5o-0005UX-Ub for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 11:23:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53794) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gDt57-0005UF-HQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 11:22:26 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gDt53-0007Rd-9e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 11:22:25 -0400 Original-Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:38412) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gDt53-0007Qh-14 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 11:22:21 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w9KFIZMw047979; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 15:22:14 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=yobic8j3/WNYN2rRCJ0ny+OHte9UyIJAs5UiMAPgSX8=; b=XPqU3ksjlCDVFIB5yIG6Be7j+tKJYtkTbYnlZidpbV1ngMbbKNaEEDH0cFRgVqzqXx3N CFnCMz33rYPrnpYo0lETrlqvJM57728SzBEKDkEcilhkpJQcQqceSL+3lfiVCcxmF+My 8mciBlks8x6pMrmfWTMp0eel3jBA6Ie9lMHSzF+XjYddqGOxrEQTzVpNi89AiEcmuJRO ivEGuLtw8Y/LxDceuRPngbqMMsimi0AgQoWaDSDkF7CbpWXccTuO69/Wqhs3KsWMebOa /wbkpzNjqk9rpd6bPkjdTCgbtad/uuvbqfbRjnU1MMNtXetGv0gw1YSqaYPTrxwSa5eF Yg== Original-Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2n7usts2bn-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 20 Oct 2018 15:22:14 +0000 Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w9KFMCMA030028 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 20 Oct 2018 15:22:13 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0008.oracle.com (abhmp0008.oracle.com [141.146.116.14]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id w9KFMBUY018484; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 15:22:12 GMT In-Reply-To: <5BCB1D82.3020108@gmx.at> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4756.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9052 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1810200143 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.86 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:230524 Archived-At: > Attached find a rewrite of the documentation of buffer display > functions to be applied against the release branch. >=20 > Work in progress. Proofreading and suggestions welcome. >=20 > Thanks for the attention, martin Thanks very much for working on this area of the documentation! This is an area where things have become more complicated and could use clarification. Working on this really helps. I only skimmed your patch, but I have at least this comment: I object to the removal of doc for, and the downplay of support for, `pop-up-frames' etc. Such variables are very handy; they should continue to be fully supported and even touted, IMO. Yes, I am perhaps a lone voice in this regard, but I wanted to once again voice my disagreement about this, FWIW. In addition to the wholesale removal of such doc, this, for instance, is the wrong direction to take, IMHO: +Many efforts in the design of @code{display-buffer} have been given +to maintain compatibility with code that uses older options like +@code{pop-up-windows}, @code{pop-up-frames}, +@code{pop-up-frame-alist}, @code{same-window-buffer-names} and +@code{same-window-regexps}. Applications and users should refrain +from using these options in future code. Above we already warned +against customizing @code{pop-up-frame-alist}. Here we describe how +to convert the remaining options to use display actions instead. (I don't object to the "many efforts...to maintain compatibility...". In fact, I applaud such effort and compatibility. I object to it being considered only backward compatibility. I object to discouraging or phasing out such useful constructs. If they didn't exist then we should want to invent them...) Being able to simply bind an option such as `pop-up-frames', to change the behavior of existing code, is very useful. Richard's arguments why dynamic binding of variables (in _addition_ to lexical binding) is particularly useful for _Emacs_ is relevant here. It is as relevant today as when it was written, decades ago: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/emacs-paper.html#SEC17 https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/emacs-paper.html#SEC18 Please keep supporting, and not at all discourage, `pop-up-frames' and similar. Thanks for listening, and thanks for the ton of careful work you've put in for this documentation and to make buffer display more configurable.