From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: A new user perspective about "Changes for emacs 28" Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2020 23:05:05 +0300 Message-ID: <94fda087-a61b-356d-4bb4-791907593246@yandex.ru> References: <1ca462fa-0f9e-3c18-6386-f43f49388b2f@gmail.com> <20200907180812.5tfylspp7i6vl4o3@Ergus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21167"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ergus , Nicola Manca Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 07 22:08:09 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kFNQv-0005Py-62 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 22:08:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50940 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFNQu-0001yX-73 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 16:08:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33716) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFNO4-0005Kr-2v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 16:05:12 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lj1-x22b.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::22b]:36510) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFNO2-0008Ni-4R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 16:05:11 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lj1-x22b.google.com with SMTP id t23so17345402ljc.3 for ; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 13:05:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=GJmBhv9hSlUx1mq5ZpGB80iX7pikF4KE6JNdxkyyNkA=; b=T9kpEHuJKr5nJ6SCcHQWnS+WeAptDLbxTRUi9E2HP5AqqYdLT21b5Lr2akRnL22PWs QKn6GZUp/vCilx9pvvz60HoQtgLgjXrjKmxAeKjClHlrBzQ7re436Lr96mt7RYV9B7nb gaV10EV2J2mmKDlyodGjU/GGuOjWWsHPztsu2gjIKlvcbwRzVC/kk9leZ19YglEW8QB/ A4kBSuR7ICF+VgUlm2ATCVzjJvfAItekEExKvMh1LyKLZY4k9b2aTnNfz5BxEG302gsw ZpwZHZ7Fg2HWEqKz3/A5VwSgLMQfQymNFKs6VjjLXLAFEFiGdXwFMkadptcXFgFA6mcp Sj1A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=GJmBhv9hSlUx1mq5ZpGB80iX7pikF4KE6JNdxkyyNkA=; b=owdlGy2fgGsDWThRBgwZfqsP9wgdSdJLSgmqs15cCMofYwWRR2wO5w1Oupnm9gY82L /ILu6smgvnpj2uvpOtoXmKAWnGYYfhley/5mwvqpwDrZhBRUPVkp0Ztz+0LyW1sfttVS pjXi/7Dr1JqInvVvMRGd3c0LOhfwbXIYK8UCndsQiVD2sjeJ3QXdUqw+9tDpBFJNz8TV JzfJXX5m7p/jmE4CqS2ujGACOmOu7DIRkszAy9FfgV4rPCcBfZ/CnfxcEcHd5xyJxbRb vm8L9sFysvllLyatU/U/edvCFjl17SWmADVPrQaOsaK8u2gTl5CiosvWflmUloMAxLkk NeXw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533i6x8EX7fqhEjEtVUX3OhHM8jwZBMoi4Cz70BeTswgEslKkqSW V1dSjp6fvqSsytr7O6nvl5LnRCZksgE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzy6e8c/EpajLSJBItqfdIS1vCO8CHfln1x7dcAGz8qdPTiirsKNYwgdp5+7CBy0WVr8/3fmQ== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9590:: with SMTP id w16mr2250942ljh.68.1599509107741; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 13:05:07 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.104] ([94.229.108.16]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id 10sm8285648lfq.64.2020.09.07.13.05.06 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 07 Sep 2020 13:05:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20200907180812.5tfylspp7i6vl4o3@Ergus> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::22b; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-lj1-x22b.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -32 X-Spam_score: -3.3 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NICE_REPLY_A=-1.825, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:254672 Archived-At: On 07.09.2020 21:08, Ergus wrote: >> - undo-tree-mode > Undo tree had some problems in the past. But if you want the basic > undo/redo behavior there is something already in vanilla (as usual a bit > hidden): > > (global-set-key [remap undo] 'undo-only) > (global-set-key (kbd "C-M-_") 'undo-redo) > > which I discovered after asking here and fighting with undo tree for > almost a year. Good point. undo-tree has been stable for me lately, but it might be overkill for a lot of users, and the default undo behavior is... exotic. So I think ideally we'd switch to the above key mappings by default. But since this is going to be a hard sell, at least this option should be better documented/advertised, maybe even on the new splash screen people have imagined/mentioned.