From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: covici@ccs.covici.com Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Use Core Text for Cocoa Emacs Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 22:59:57 -0400 Message-ID: <9342.1274324397@ccs.covici.com> References: <94E6FF46-4227-4DA2-BE35-C64908558378@gmail.com> <18325.1274214480@ccs.covici.com> <24612.1274240176@ccs.covici.com> <6FB96086-3851-4AAB-BA98-4D4C7ED94F7D@mit.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1274324426 26140 80.91.229.12 (20 May 2010 03:00:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 03:00:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Chad Brown , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu May 20 05:00:25 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OEvzk-0001Lg-1A for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 20 May 2010 05:00:24 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44169 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OEvzj-0003F8-IB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 May 2010 23:00:23 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=34180 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OEvzb-0003F3-85 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 May 2010 23:00:19 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OEvzV-0007sf-2P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 May 2010 23:00:15 -0400 Original-Received: from wlym.com ([66.135.63.43]:54137) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OEvzU-0007sX-U3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 May 2010 23:00:09 -0400 Original-Received: from ccs.covici.com (pool-96-247-205-104.clppva.fios.verizon.net [96.247.205.104]) (authenticated bits=128) by wlym.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id o4K2uPwO022934 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 19 May 2010 21:56:27 -0500 Original-Received: from ccs.covici.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ccs.covici.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id o4K2xvWh009344; Wed, 19 May 2010 23:00:03 -0400 In-reply-to: Comments: In-reply-to YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu message dated "Thu, 20 May 2010 09:56:48 +0900." X-Mailer: MH-E 8.2; nmh 1.3; GNU Emacs 23.1.1 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:124957 Archived-At: YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu wrote: > >>>>> On Tue, 18 May 2010 21:00:15 -0700, Chad Brown said: > > >> I'm asking it because I don't know how to confirm whether or not > >> "accessibility" or "Voiceover" gets supported when I add some code > >> with respect to this area. > > > In System Preferences, open Universal Access. VoiceOver can be > > activated from there, or via the key combo Command-Fn-F5. You can > > also go into the VoiceOver Utility from there. > > So far, so concrete. But suddenly it became far from concrete below. > Could you describe concrete operations together with expected and > actual behavior as in good bug reports? > > > I can verify that Emacs doesn't work with VoiceOver, in that > > VoiceOver can only identify the application name, title, tool-bar, > > and scrollbar. The Universal Access tool-bar access works partially > > with the emacs tool-bar -- it can identify the buttons, but not the > > labels. It cannot identify buffer text or functional elements > > inside emacs like customize buttons or modelines. > > What do you mean by "identify"? With what concrete operation one can > check if they are "identified"? > > I tried "halfway implemented" experimental accessibility support code > (not in the released one) on top of the Mac port I mentioned in > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2010-05/msg00226.html > > If I activate VoiceOver from the System Preferences as described above > and click the Emacs frame, then the whole content area (i.e., other > than the title bar and the tool bar, but including scroll bars) of the > frame gets bordered in black, and the application name ("Emacs"), the > title bar name, and the buffer text get spoken in this order. But the > cursor keys do not cause the character under the cursor to be spoken. > > If this is heading to the right direction, then Core Text vs. NS Text > system, both of which are used in the Mac port, has basically nothing > to do with accessibility. Yep, you are going in the right direction -- menues, prompts, buttons and all such should be spoken. Look at the system preferences dialog and you will get an idea. Look at textedit and you will get an idea of what we would like the cursor to do. -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici covici@ccs.covici.com