From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Phil Sainty Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Some developement questions Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2018 03:34:37 +1200 Message-ID: <92e5aad5-47b9-f10f-6046-863dbfc1f0d1@orcon.net.nz> References: <8336v6cvem.fsf@gnu.org> <8736v6icgt.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83tvnmb958.fsf@gnu.org> <877ekigiiw.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <837ekhb2me.fsf@gnu.org> <87zhxcbmtr.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83in409lub.fsf@gnu.org> <871sanb71j.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83y3cu7t9j.fsf@gnu.org> <87lg8t2ki9.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <20180827015422.lcq44zvsjffeau4j@Ergus> <83a7p76f5e.fsf@gnu.org> <87lg8p9o6y.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83pnxx1foj.fsf@gnu.org> <87bm9d9zs9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87efe75v02.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <87sh2lu471.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <282c6a86f8a2dabd7367c41d71cf31ab@webmail.orcon.net.nz> <87y3cdqwat.fsf@toy.adminart.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1536334374 23321 195.159.176.226 (7 Sep 2018 15:32:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2018 15:32:54 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 Cc: eliz@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, spacibba@aol.com, Richard Stallman , phillip.lord@russet.org.uk To: hw Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 07 17:32:50 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fyIkb-0005x1-Ld for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 17:32:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39171 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyImh-0000EI-KO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 11:34:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55390) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyImZ-0000E8-H2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 11:34:53 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyImV-0004fc-Li for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 11:34:50 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp-4.orcon.net.nz ([60.234.4.59]:35965) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyImV-0004XK-6U; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 11:34:47 -0400 Original-Received: from [150.107.172.23] (port=52402 helo=[192.168.20.103]) by smtp-4.orcon.net.nz with esmtpa (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fyImM-0000Bz-7z; Sat, 08 Sep 2018 03:34:38 +1200 In-Reply-To: <87y3cdqwat.fsf@toy.adminart.net> Content-Language: en-GB X-GeoIP: NZ X-Spam_score: -2.9 X-Spam_score_int: -28 X-Spam_bar: -- X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 60.234.4.59 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229418 Archived-At: On 08/09/18 02:15, hw wrote: > Phil Sainty writes: >> Whatever you feel you're gaining from hiding the menus surely >> can't be of greater benefit to you than all the knowledge and >> functionality that you're missing as a consequence? > > Well, I'm not missing anything. What would I be searching for in > the menues, and why would I bother to look? In the snippets I quoted before, as well as in other earlier emails, you have explained how there are numerous Emacs features and modes that you don't really know how to use because you don't know what the key bindings are; and also that you have hidden the feature which would most trivially let you find out what they did and how to use them. With the menus visible I am *imagining* that it would occur to you to look at them the next time you were wondering what sorts of commands a particular mode provided, and that in the process you may even discover some useful key bindings as well. > Do you have an example? Sure. You said just before: > Emacs can work with CVS systems like git. I haven't found yet out > how to make use of this feature, yet I'm sure there are lots of key > bindings that make editing source code much more efficient when you > are using CVS systems. Sitting there waiting in the Tools -> Version Control menu we find all of the following: VC Dir C-x v d Ignore File... C-x v G Register C-x v i Check In/Out C-x v v Update to Latest Version C-x v + Push Changes C-x v P Revert to Base Version C-x v u Insert Header Show Top of the Tree History C-x v L Show History C-x v l Show Incoming Log C-x v I Show Outgoing Log C-x v O Update ChangeLog C-x v a Compare Tree with Base Version C-x v D Compare with Base Version C-x v = Show Other Version C-x v ~ Rename File Annotate C-x v g Create Tag C-x v s Retrieve Tag C-x v r Which tells you a whole bunch of useful commands for working with a VCS system, and means you never need to worry about forgetting any of the bindings (but it still tells you what they are, so that you could use them instead if you chose to). And of course checking the manual (maybe via the Help menu) would quickly take you to the Info node "(emacs)Version Control" where you could learn all about this feature in detail. I have to admit that I'm genuinely perplexed. On the one hand you profess to having some difficulty finding out how to do things -- or even what things there might be available to do -- all of which sounds to me a lot like "I'm missing things"; and on the other hand you say "I'm not missing anything" and that you see no reasons to look in the menus, despite those menus existing for the purposes of showing people the things they can do, and making it easy to do them even when they don't know the key bindings. If the menus are not one of the *best* answers to your issue, then I've completely and utterly misunderstood. In any case, I shall stop harping on about it. -Phil