From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Yuan Fu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Making Emacs more friendly to newcomers Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 20:49:21 -0400 Message-ID: <92F52281-913F-46CF-92E6-30E3A6EBE596@gmail.com> References: <863691n4xl.wl-me@enzu.ru> <87imhw431x.fsf@yahoo.com> <87mu78huhx.fsf_-_@yahoo.com> <87k12bdgx7.fsf@yahoo.com> <83zhb6grtq.fsf@gnu.org> <83ftcwgb07.fsf@gnu.org> <291bb5b2-92d5-85f1-57d8-895eed14ffc2@yandex.ru> <837dy7fyeg.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6C1769AC-9991-42C8-AD41-C2855DAF9AC6" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="54876"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Dmitry Gutov , =?utf-8?Q?S=C3=A9bastien_Gendre?= , EMACS development team To: chad Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 23 02:49:57 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jRQ3w-000E9p-IY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 02:49:56 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59976 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRQ3v-00053B-NJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 20:49:55 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49034) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRQ3T-0004dq-3B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 20:49:27 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRQ3S-0002PC-Nl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 20:49:26 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qv1-xf2c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2c]:40745) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRQ3R-0002Lo-Dk; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 20:49:25 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-qv1-xf2c.google.com with SMTP id fb4so2016378qvb.7; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 17:49:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=FAGckvhjnM55Wi2mWTDFNb/GgwPAp8wz51gt5+m3a84=; b=m+17KwXZxfnrSm8LmNt7QMUf+0bZUvn4HXb5lN6prd++Vpnt0hcL7hxas6MBKBy7mX eYb8Rsf899lHKdXb9CtZRw++/twu2NAeaEWwv0yvAUI4Fd3GfVz9qHV5S7lOer+LA2Yf i+HfEfzf9pySkFcRkYlmUeLU8RNuHz7Fj58BowE3WOjBCY0aWh0wk1C/Z3ScyIr1yIdc 7aUXPr1XdcjSJ5btLPjU6Csas+0I/MOloVdqfKJXbHJ18roIxCimIPYpydrScKoyHnoY xQMlnlV1DDSvpwKXFlZFqm8rv70FLKrobmQYSrofOxMWbRpxkOn8nCDJYDULfNCBs5kW OWrw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=FAGckvhjnM55Wi2mWTDFNb/GgwPAp8wz51gt5+m3a84=; b=K+QaSqys7XrHpEcsUT2ZJuTOTY5rf1O+XmE/uzOG2OS78Sywde4fuDvNV4HsG4aa7S cCTczAwuuzcZD6MiTvwkcfEPE5uEFe+kLx8alsDPFSCclUC9S4p5wMsYVkSs811+m2A5 q5takLLyyFo/xoAV1e4FrO+xWrm+uqcwybfHslv25QKkc9e/a7PKbKagXkDOJP6sA4Sk J9Yb32rDkbHRIWRKY+/yp5JjNIRBrkApXUrrFxgoUV4fnsKiyC8F5FTe4XH5sT3f2Bw9 ecbklhiwL3q1n4wdDRJKLRbuLA8wMYNSBC9j+0OwTn2nGiGemNFWxxUx5E1+KxD5hhZu 4OoA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0Pub1YRI3V0GzZXG8TvSjbznJIwFPzcACN+FSQGlaLCWgDDGhX9Wu oklnJhP1oW9jIasQOUHKylA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKqPWwkvoxMFz5phNGm6EvzGPLwiuu8ZSQ9iU3dgZp7wKQ4I+9uqzuBIcsZWc2cGBzeisHMYA== X-Received: by 2002:a0c:fdc2:: with SMTP id g2mr1710852qvs.59.1587602963857; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 17:49:23 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.5] (c-174-60-229-153.hsd1.pa.comcast.net. [174.60.229.153]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y18sm760540qty.41.2020.04.22.17.49.22 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 22 Apr 2020 17:49:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2c; envelope-from=casouri@gmail.com; helo=mail-qv1-xf2c.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: [-] PROGRAM ABORT : Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). Location : parse_addr6(), p0f-client.c:67 X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2c X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247556 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail=_6C1769AC-9991-42C8-AD41-C2855DAF9AC6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Apr 22, 2020, at 8:12 PM, chad wrote: >=20 >=20 > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 3:52 PM Yuan Fu > wrote: >=20 > Some ideas:=20 > 3. It would be cool if Customize can customize mode hooks and = auto-mode-alist and other usual stuff. >=20 > It seems like most elisp packages could come with a standardized = "Here's the normal setup for this mode/package; would you like to run it = now, have it run on each startup, or see a new buffer where you can = examine it now?", analogous to how customize-theme prompts to = disallow/allow-once/allow-always code upon loading the theme. If Customize can provide a interface, I=E2=80=99m sure packages will = (slowly) adapt to it, just as they adapt to defcustom. > (Honestly, I assume this never happened because most emacs devs seem = to prefer managing snippets of elisp over using customize.) Mainly for maintenance reasons, I guess. Custom file is usually not = version-controlled. That=E2=80=99s not necessarily a bad thing, I find = Customize useful for storing local configurations that could differ = between machines (executable paths, etc). Maybe Customize could separate = into two files, one version controlled, one local. And I can put many of = my random setq=E2=80=99s into Customize.=20 --Apple-Mail=_6C1769AC-9991-42C8-AD41-C2855DAF9AC6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On Apr 22, 2020, at 8:12 PM, chad <yandros@gmail.com> = wrote:


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 3:52 PM Yuan Fu <casouri@gmail.com> = wrote:

Some ideas: 
3. It would be cool if = Customize can customize mode hooks and auto-mode-alist and other usual = stuff.

It seems like most elisp packages could come with a = standardized "Here's the normal setup for this mode/package; would you = like to run it now, have it run on each startup, or see a new = buffer where you can examine it now?", analogous to how = customize-theme prompts to disallow/allow-once/allow-always code upon = loading the theme.

If Customize can provide a interface, I=E2=80=99m = sure packages will (slowly) adapt to it, just as they adapt to = defcustom.

(Honestly, I assume this never happened because most emacs = devs seem to prefer managing snippets of elisp over using = customize.)

Mainly for maintenance reasons, I guess. Custom = file is usually not version-controlled. That=E2=80=99s not necessarily a = bad thing, I find Customize useful for storing local configurations that = could differ between machines (executable paths, etc). Maybe Customize = could separate into two files, one version controlled, one local. And I = can put many of my random setq=E2=80=99s into = Customize. 



= --Apple-Mail=_6C1769AC-9991-42C8-AD41-C2855DAF9AC6--