From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: master 1e3b0f2: Improve doc strings of project.el Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 03:55:33 +0300 Message-ID: <922bca06-3425-6fa3-b184-89942c75e91d@yandex.ru> References: <83a704okmg.fsf@gnu.org> <5d59dd9b-0848-691a-615e-c16d2070b92d@yandex.ru> <837dv8oida.fsf@gnu.org> <834kqcoghk.fsf@gnu.org> <99bb8976-580a-ef8e-6b7d-130c3ca5cb8a@yandex.ru> <83y2nom3hy.fsf@gnu.org> <20200713075842.GA4332@tuxteam.de> <21b47cbb-d1aa-d875-2944-deebb7583961@yandex.ru> <20200717152702.GA18658@tuxteam.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="37652"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: tomas@tuxteam.de Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 18 02:56:33 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jwb9V-0009iY-TQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 18 Jul 2020 02:56:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44392 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jwb9U-0007FV-Vr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 17 Jul 2020 20:56:32 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41116) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jwb8d-0006gx-Qd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Jul 2020 20:55:39 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ej1-x631.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::631]:34896) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jwb8c-0001Z1-5W for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Jul 2020 20:55:39 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ej1-x631.google.com with SMTP id rk21so12753609ejb.2 for ; Fri, 17 Jul 2020 17:55:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Qo4QrdKwwI2PBe+OSjaW8YNst/7TvroQQW5YGyl/4Jw=; b=ZVB5qwEyPMcdX8CmPOpkQrqkaRTQtOnxENbgQR04wLyL6nBJSTg16B7+ZSSySO5zmf 1/pLQo4UkmKwJhNSBQRryZaSWaRzoVoAcMuk1HjH2Kkmn6Pb+oFbkcZDgyudUDdCnQdD yr1qyEhX446yiPVFsg7luOWZDZQK/f6/vm/hz+R6jayIHzlezzMTpKCExa/apUTygazd P76Q8TKZSU7aYDmDwyZBqzdfIpyTzNr/lE7UufFZY8/D8YtvCGVMWrDcYj5tUGkiXGp7 fQkIl/VCehEp8D30Arfh5liPEYl8yUkxaWXzOlWXLv2lF/P2VMI/EgOaAQLG7FwcfVgU r6jw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Qo4QrdKwwI2PBe+OSjaW8YNst/7TvroQQW5YGyl/4Jw=; b=pb+SjlcBQPkzpJaPaJbOm1dJPnds63rl/RCUrM5p64+TJypkRebl57frU5lqU3qdX0 Qs3xHsG8+ZslTXgYXrli7HutCXFv04lu8V7Z7svUS7fz1T8XpiCl45Z5d9uY3Mg3Nt6v XzJOX6NT5436HyuHvI7GEQ4s0qVTcPvWxd1rIUOgJVGwZglkvfVKm2opnx/XIx6gxBE+ jiRPYnbS1h+phps7m8POU9fUiAhpqsohPQda0RPKw1qLg1QazcUZ86aBj2aHyOJhSGv5 dSsiTD7Qxsn56LHQPSJz1sMMekOUdJn5xIpYK5uQkEPBgPkgrQ0rDLJqnsvoOlaOmeVT vIyQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533Pctd7uchFsTrF24GCF20VV5WRu1J0WQAuv2BChu1bkhffTbMD ru/8QF9XwNKjCGzTIVaKG5mpbKqF X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwFP8xpsyq/3q+wXwOnquP0cNHWbLZgcyr7c9PFYt7M4tBk19Z0E5dAPbISdqOjUkcz6ckltQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:e0c7:: with SMTP id gl7mr10511609ejb.264.1595033736142; Fri, 17 Jul 2020 17:55:36 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.3] ([66.205.73.129]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id e22sm9267955ejd.36.2020.07.17.17.55.34 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 17 Jul 2020 17:55:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20200717152702.GA18658@tuxteam.de> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::631; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-ej1-x631.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.0 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:253055 Archived-At: On 17.07.2020 18:27, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > I was rather trying to highlight the contrast between (a) the library > designer(s) set the interface design and (b) the interface evolves > as a collective effort of designers and users. An interface's ability to evolve over time isn't entirely predicated on there being no limitations on its use. It can easily change as a result of user feedback anyway. > Reality will be a mix > of both, of course. The term API conveys a hierarchy -- clearly in > camp (a). > > The "system programmer" thing comes from former times, yes. BTW, lower level programming is not devoid of abstractions as well. I could be wrong in some details here, but a file descriptor seems like a prime example of an abstraction. The docs say it's represented by a number, but it's not a "real" number (you never do any arithmetic with it), and an fd can be backed by very different mediums: a file on disk, a network socket, a pipe, etc. And everything is a number in C anyway. It's an "opaque" value. When using it in a piece of code, you don't always have to know what kind of file it is. Or you just know it's a socket, for instance. But you know there are certain things one can do with a file descriptor, like passing it to 'write' or 'read'.