Re: C-j considered harmful (not really)

["Per Starbäck" <per@starback.se>]

> I wasn't going to speak to the general question about `S-RET' as a binding for
> newline, but since I've started...
>
> 2. I don't like the idea of binding `S-RET' to newline. The argument is
> apparently that some users will be used to that and thus expect it. So what?
> There are so many more things to learn about Emacs that might not be what
> someone is used to. This is truly not a big deal, and it doesn't warrant
> sacrificing a good key such as `S-RET'. That key is naturally associated with

In some ways S-RET is *not* a "good key", since it's not available in
all platforms.
I see that as one of the reasons why the proposed binding is so good
as a standard binding.
Since Emacs normally avoids using keys not available everywhere for
important stuff, nothing
much is really sacrificed. It is only a win (even though maybe it's
not big a win).
(And of course a library like icicles could change that for those who
want that.)

> RET, which is used often and has specific meanings in different contexts, so
> `S-RET' can be used for a variant of what RET does in any given context (see #1
> wrt the minibuffer's RET).

> `C-j' _IS_ newline. OK, some people don't know that. But most programmers of
> UNIX, Linux, C, etc. do know it, and others can surely learn it - no biggee. It

(Well, C-j is linefeed, and linefeed is newline in Unix, and thus in
GNU, and thus in Emacs
buffers.) I agree that's it's not a biggie and that others *can* learn
it. But I prefer
if they don't have to, since they have lots of other stuff to learn as
well. Every good step
is a good step, even the small ones.

> is elegant to use the key to self-insert, the same way it is elegant to use the
> key `a' to insert an `a' character.

Absolutely. Even though the non-paren part of my subject line might
indicate otherwise I only
want an alternative. (And I would like C-j to self-insert in minibuffers.)