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From: "Per Starbäck" <per@starback.se>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
Cc: Juri Linkov <juri@jurta.org>,
	emacs-devel@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>,
	Deniz Dogan <deniz.a.m.dogan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: C-j considered harmful (not really)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:09:33 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <912155b0911230809q219e70acyde63e42e11433547@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <F531921AB3E74524B20637B314693C6B@us.oracle.com>

> I wasn't going to speak to the general question about `S-RET' as a binding for
> newline, but since I've started...
>
> 2. I don't like the idea of binding `S-RET' to newline. The argument is
> apparently that some users will be used to that and thus expect it. So what?
> There are so many more things to learn about Emacs that might not be what
> someone is used to. This is truly not a big deal, and it doesn't warrant
> sacrificing a good key such as `S-RET'. That key is naturally associated with

In some ways S-RET is *not* a "good key", since it's not available in
all platforms.
I see that as one of the reasons why the proposed binding is so good
as a standard binding.
Since Emacs normally avoids using keys not available everywhere for
important stuff, nothing
much is really sacrificed. It is only a win (even though maybe it's
not big a win).
(And of course a library like icicles could change that for those who
want that.)

> RET, which is used often and has specific meanings in different contexts, so
> `S-RET' can be used for a variant of what RET does in any given context (see #1
> wrt the minibuffer's RET).

> `C-j' _IS_ newline. OK, some people don't know that. But most programmers of
> UNIX, Linux, C, etc. do know it, and others can surely learn it - no biggee. It

(Well, C-j is linefeed, and linefeed is newline in Unix, and thus in
GNU, and thus in Emacs
buffers.) I agree that's it's not a biggie and that others *can* learn
it. But I prefer
if they don't have to, since they have lots of other stuff to learn as
well. Every good step
is a good step, even the small ones.

> is elegant to use the key to self-insert, the same way it is elegant to use the
> key `a' to insert an `a' character.

Absolutely. Even though the non-paren part of my subject line might
indicate otherwise I only
want an alternative. (And I would like C-j to self-insert in minibuffers.)




  reply	other threads:[~2009-11-23 16:09 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 15+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-11-16 22:37 C-j considered harmful (not really) Per Starbäck
2009-11-16 22:51 ` Deniz Dogan
2009-11-17 10:09   ` Juri Linkov
2009-11-17 23:17     ` Xavier Maillard
2009-11-18  9:54       ` Juri Linkov
2009-11-22 20:36     ` Per Starbäck
2009-11-22 20:53       ` Deniz Dogan
2009-11-23  2:57       ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-23  9:54         ` Juri Linkov
2009-11-23 11:11           ` Per Starbäck
2009-11-23 15:05             ` Drew Adams
2009-11-23 15:05           ` Drew Adams
2009-11-23 16:09             ` Per Starbäck [this message]
2009-11-24 17:12             ` Juri Linkov
2009-11-24 17:51               ` Drew Adams

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