From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Per_Starb=E4ck?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: C-j considered harmful (not really) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:11:02 +0100 Message-ID: <912155b0911230311m60103693j6331866d97ab8179@mail.gmail.com> References: <912155b0911161437l7d5d5d3h790edff279fdad7a@mail.gmail.com> <7b501d5c0911161451s3e54e48dve127bd144f2affc8@mail.gmail.com> <877htpjwd4.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <912155b0911221236t7cebbb35n4bc10805bb685c1e@mail.gmail.com> <87zl6dk2pz.fsf@mail.jurta.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1258974794 17378 80.91.229.12 (23 Nov 2009 11:13:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:13:14 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Deniz Dogan , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Juri Linkov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 23 12:13:06 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NCWqv-0007ZC-VC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:13:06 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53252 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NCWqv-0004KY-A2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 06:13:05 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NCWp3-0003KL-4B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 06:11:09 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NCWox-0003ID-ST for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 06:11:07 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=42888 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NCWox-0003I6-F6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 06:11:03 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-fx0-f213.google.com ([209.85.220.213]:60619) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NCWox-0001T4-32 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 06:11:03 -0500 Original-Received: by fxm5 with SMTP id 5so6049291fxm.8 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 03:11:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=b4x/ZQycq9k1mfpT6a5Qbn7VtKZDzkHjzlBoFOxxoPo=; b=WHAfyhX514f0ZfoYt3mfwEW275MKgyQ95YnX/FaAe9grGS+j93fXCaSbkReM61PUvo 5nYWQLK97DtwpPjAWruvo9JALluAk2zzNCGoyiulNp/P4zT4rPDBjR2EjCXKjefsbI6r ZWRH8EndHiKmF9HMCMEglq91rTl7nobaGB3L0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=T1bDr1rVEj1ly8JnlqzsB+WO6GbChOqet96SQruWaDVT6+R/U5HJ0BUbqqglrGlCHR BrmMp+KxwVhoWhx7RLNluwj64x73LU2gGjXm0N8DGh0CgXMb77yn6sWJS82Z1YRacspR nx2+yd0TdE4yzGrTuiErqlxYwyQQ1VMhk00Yk= Original-Received: by 10.223.27.194 with SMTP id j2mr757337fac.76.1258974662217; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 03:11:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87zl6dk2pz.fsf@mail.jurta.org> X-Google-Sender-Auth: bc8389d86e07d6ec X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:117575 Archived-At: 2009/11/23 Juri Linkov : >> > Evidently is used to insert newlines in lots of programs. >> > I've just searched for "shift-return" and "shift-enter" on the web and >> > seen many examples. >> > >> > After reconsidering this I then suggest just that should be >> > usable as an alternative to C-j. >> >> So you suggest >> >> =A0 (define-key function-key-map [S-return] [?\C-j]) >> >> ? > > I guess the initial suggestion was rather: > > =A0(define-key minibuffer-local-map [S-return] 'newline) I changed my mind, so my current suggestion is the function-key-map thing. I realized that this alternative to a real linefeed key would be useful elsewhere too, for newline-and-indent and other functions that are "natural" for a linefeed ke= y. Also I think it makes sense in general to have keys-that-can't-be-typed-everywhere be aliases for something that can be typed everywhere instead of doing their own thing. > I guess I could live with that. But you'd still need to prefix it with > C-q in minibuffer prompts, wouldn't you? So we'd need more changes, > e.g. making LF in minibuffer input not exit the minibuffer. I've never > used an LF key, so I could live with that, but I don't know what other > people think about it. Right. I'd like to see that as another question (regardless of whether S-return =3D C-j or not), that it's unnecessary to have both RET and C-j for minibuffer-complete-and-exit, so it would be better to have C-j do newline there. Probably some people are used to us= ing C-j there? So then I suggest an option for that, with the default being that C-j does newline, to make it easier for new users. I think this would be useful even for very casual new users, at least with replace-string. And I think it would be useful for all current users who only use RET for minibuffer-complete-and-exit (like myself).