From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Per_Starb=E4ck?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Completion keys and rectangles Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 23:14:02 +0100 Message-ID: <912155b0911161414g5b514f0ft410f3e32a2ff25d4@mail.gmail.com> References: <912155b0911161158w73acdb93p4b28d2a3b260a8f2@mail.gmail.com> <4B01C564.1010001@harpegolden.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1258409662 18141 80.91.229.12 (16 Nov 2009 22:14:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 22:14:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David De La Harpe Golden Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 16 23:14:15 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NA9pu-0003S2-Ss for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 16 Nov 2009 23:14:15 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45458 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NA9pu-0006Q3-4V for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:14:14 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NA9po-0006Pg-Se for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:14:08 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NA9pk-0006P6-75 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:14:08 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=38135 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NA9pk-0006P3-1b for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:14:04 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]:60175) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NA9pj-0000XD-Mm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:14:03 -0500 Original-Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so6332718bwz.26 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2009 14:14:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZlpSIL8bmgBcbh1f1Yqm+Unkd2JyIu91qKRs9CBJ908=; b=iPlKuC4wXsPbIpnUFvsXJUWxN7GKijbRjyUVvsPrBUHQFLlw/znhdVR4XjGa4hMsle wWrfQjHcgoqRvj0t1777gakNdqGhgT3g9uQda2mXpURt/GIWq2iUovTyzKRglml89iyF 2PXXUlWA6K0o3pZGhW7pfvFCadbRswViiiNUY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=PFcdlrp5HXjDXzdmcQYyA7eU0ImutCme577EcwLgauTDegS9sPRshnj5NLVQog+rV5 /vWlXdKk2+70eGEArZDgBWjYcURdh07vOUb4bpD8ALx9lzdZjiI3jvgkj3js2WygUC5A sRPgvnKf8OqwF/1cfNDY+nIZXY1t/+MuIK8E4= Original-Received: by 10.223.21.3 with SMTP id h3mr1229943fab.39.1258409642343; Mon, 16 Nov 2009 14:14:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4B01C564.1010001@harpegolden.net> X-Google-Sender-Auth: d5264abab520cfbb X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:117051 Archived-At: 2009/11/16 David De La Harpe Golden : > Per Starb=E4ck wrote: >> >> M-TAB is very often used by the window manager. > > True, or at least M- is (what? See below), =A0but that's typically a= n > easily reconfigured option in the window manager preferences (except on > windows). Yes, but most people don't change that. And certainly most new Emacs users wouldn't want to change something they already are used to just to accomoda= te to a "new" program they are trying out. >> What do you think is the best solution to the window mangers vs. >> completion in emacs problem? Would it be better if >> key-description described M-TAB as ESC TAB or C-M-i if there is reason >> to think M-TAB won't work? > > M-TAB pretty much /is/ emacs saying M-C-i Yes, but how key-description describes it can change what keys users actually press. OK. I should have written "there is reason to think won't work". >> Would it be good to have an =A0alternative key for M-TAB? > > I tend to view C-M-i (M- C-i) /as/ the memorable alternative to M-TAB. It's not memorable for most new users. But maybe there is nothing better left to use. Then I think it would be good if key-description avoided description that might lead people to press combinations of keys that won't work at least. (Just like it's good that backward-kill-sexp is on ESC , ESC doesn't mention or ... > Showing my age I guess, but this was once something "everyone knew" in > computing: > > ASCII TAB =3D 9. =A0 9 + 64 =3D 73. 73 =3D ASCII I > ASCII BS =A0=3D 8. =A0 8 + 64 =3D 72. 72 =3D ASCII H > ASCII ESC =3D 27. 27 + 64 =3D 91. 91 =3D ASCII [ > > So, ^I for TAB, ^H for backspace, ^[ for escape etc. Sure, but I don't like that to be prerequisite knowledge for using Emacs.