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Sun, 3 Sep 2023 11:29:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface In-Reply-To: <875y4t69vq.fsf@gmail.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.111.4.26; envelope-from=bozhidar@batsov.dev; helo=out2-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309986 Archived-At: --af1b98d806d44fb99ff2d3cc043dc2d2 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Therefore, given that both you and Bozidhar have signed CA's and given > that you could happily continue to develop it on GitHub (like I did wi= th > Eglot for many years), I'm astonished how you were convinced to not > bring your creation into the GNU project after initially wanting to. And I'm astonished how you can't take "no" as an answer. Once someone ma= kes the case for serious benefits of including something in ELPA/core we= 'd strongly consider this, but everything that was discussed so far is j= ust extremely subjective. We clearly have different perspective of where= value is derived from - I believe in nurturing a community around speci= fic projects, you believe in the power of GNU to provide support and dev= elopment resources for everything under its hat ad for all time. It's fi= ne for people to value different things and for good outcomes to be achi= eved by different means.=20 I still haven't heard what are the problems that bringing the Clojure su= pport to ELPA or core would solve. I said I don't buy that installing 3r= d party packages is a big obstacle. I've also told you we have a big org= anization of people behind the clojure-emacs community (and a pretty lon= g track record) , so me or Danny are not a bus factor of one. We came an= d submitted the packages to NonGNU ELPA to make things easier for people= who are skeptical of MELPA, etc. From my perspective we've been very ac= commodating and collaborative, but somehow that's not enough.=20 Being part of GNU is great. Not being part of GNU is also great. There's= more than one right answer from time to time.=20 On Fri, Sep 1, 2023, at 8:12 PM, Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora wrote: > Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora writes: >=20 > > I might have missed some important from yourself, but if clojure-ts-= mode > > is in such stages of infancy and you are its author, why don't you > > consider placing clojure-ts-mode in a GNU repository? If CIDER is s= uch > > a fundamental tool (like SLIME and SLY are for Common Lisp) your > > long-term goals would decidely also apply to any future GNU Clojure > > mode for Emacs. >=20 > Going back to some earlier emails I see you have addressed this earlie= r. > You wrote: >=20 > > > Not all of the maintainers of clojure-mode and clojure-ts-mode are > > > on board with the core development model, particularly copyright > > > assignment. Initially I wanted to put this straight in the core but > > > after some discussion we decided not to. I have personally done my > > > copyright assignment, but for clojure-ts-mode we won't be asking > > > contributors for it. Therefore, going into GNU ELPA or core then is > > > out of the question. >=20 > From what I could gather from clojure-ts-mode's GitHub repository, you > and Bozidhar are its main authors. Then there is a single non-trivial > contribution by a single other author Jason Jackson, bringing the total > number of contributors to 3. That single contribution is a syntax tab= le > which looks non-trivial in terms of LOC, but it repeats a lot of what = is > already lisp-data-mode's syntax table anyway, so probably could be > rewritten very easily). >=20 > Therefore, given that both you and Bozidhar have signed CA's and given > that you could happily continue to develop it on GitHub (like I did wi= th > Eglot for many years), I'm astonished how you were convinced to not > bring your creation into the GNU project after initially wanting to. >=20 > Personally, I can say that Eglot has over a 100 contributors and I nev= er > saw copyright assignment as a anywhere close to a significant issue > hampering contribution. >=20 > Jo=C3=A3o >=20 >=20 --af1b98d806d44fb99ff2d3cc043dc2d2 Content-Type: text/html;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Therefore, given that both you and Bozid= har have signed CA's and given
that you could happily cont= inue to develop it on GitHub (like I did with
Eglot for ma= ny years), I'm astonished how you were convinced to not
br= ing your creation into the GNU project after initially wanting to.

And I'm astonished how you can't ta= ke "no" as an answer. Once someone makes the case for serious benefits o= f including something in ELPA/core we'd strongly consider this, but ever= ything that was discussed so far is just extremely subjective. We clearl= y have different perspective of where value is derived from - I believe = in nurturing a community around specific projects, you believe in the po= wer of GNU to provide support and development resources for everything u= nder its hat ad for all time. It's fine for people to value different th= ings and for good outcomes to be achieved by different means.
=

I still haven't heard what are the problems that bri= nging the Clojure support to ELPA or core would solve. I said I don't bu= y that installing 3rd party packages is a big obstacle. I've also told y= ou we have a big organization of people behind the clojure-emacs communi= ty (and a pretty long track record) , so me or Danny are not a bus facto= r of one. We came and submitted the packages to NonGNU ELPA to make thin= gs easier for people who are skeptical of MELPA, etc. From my perspectiv= e we've been very accommodating and collaborative, but somehow that's no= t enough.

Being part of GNU is great. Not = being part of GNU is also great. There's more than one right answer from= time to time.

On Fri, Sep 1, 2023, at 8:1= 2 PM, Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora wrote:
Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora <joaotavora@gmail.com> writes:
> I might have missed some important from yourself, but i= f clojure-ts-mode
> is in such stages of infancy and yo= u are its author, why don't you
> consider placing cloj= ure-ts-mode in a GNU repository?  If CIDER is such
&g= t; a fundamental tool (like SLIME and SLY are for Common Lisp) your
<= /div>
> long-term goals would decidely also apply to any future G= NU Clojure
> mode for Emacs.

Going back to some earlier emails I see you have addressed this earli= er.
You wrote:

> > Not = all of the maintainers of clojure-mode and clojure-ts-mode are
=
> > on board with the core development model, particularly co= pyright
> > assignment. Initially I wanted to put th= is straight in the core but
> > after some discussio= n we decided not to. I have personally done my
> > c= opyright assignment, but for clojure-ts-mode we won't be asking
> > contributors for it. Therefore, going into GNU ELPA or c= ore then is
> > out of the question.
<= br>
From what I could gather from clojure-ts-mode's GitHub rep= ository, you
and Bozidhar are its main authors.  Then= there is a single non-trivial
contribution by a single ot= her author Jason Jackson, bringing the total
number of con= tributors to 3.  That single contribution is a syntax table
which looks non-trivial in terms of LOC, but it repeats a lot of = what is
already lisp-data-mode's syntax table anyway, so p= robably could be
rewritten very easily).
Therefore, given that both you and Bozidhar have signed CA's= and given
that you could happily continue to develop it o= n GitHub (like I did with
Eglot for many years), I'm aston= ished how you were convinced to not
bring your creation in= to the GNU project after initially wanting to.

<= div>Personally, I can say that Eglot has over a 100 contributors and I n= ever
saw copyright assignment as a anywhere close to a sig= nificant issue
hampering contribution.

<= /div>
Jo=C3=A3o


=

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