From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: VC menu ? Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 07:59:39 +0900 Message-ID: <90D1C755-C33D-4561-A0C1-F959E4CA1FBA@gmail.com> References: <83k23lmvwr.fsf@gnu.org> <83o9svl884.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1499641231 16196 195.159.176.226 (9 Jul 2017 23:00:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2017 23:00:31 +0000 (UTC) To: Emacs-Devel devel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 10 01:00:28 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dULBh-0003sP-0g for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 01:00:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37767 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dULBm-0004j2-9d for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 09 Jul 2017 19:00:30 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49573) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dULB6-0004ix-2u for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Jul 2017 18:59:49 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dULB2-0005js-VL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Jul 2017 18:59:48 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pg0-x235.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c05::235]:35614) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dULB2-0005il-OB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Jul 2017 18:59:44 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pg0-x235.google.com with SMTP id j186so40024153pge.2 for ; Sun, 09 Jul 2017 15:59:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=DNVa6pmIrngnj+FGnvMxiNYUXGnj/FImrD/acWKg6fY=; b=dspoqS+QV/j1C1Uu0Nk7xUk2rlDS+sycMHC9F2Qu1d/z6DrWYh5gWxlqnkwkQWXAkP a3QCo9f2u+sYOUAUtCZW6Lmc+7XrElkgbxwRQm5p/YlRddD3M/pU34jNrZmXE6yjamXs IRoM0o8y+LZy/pKG/vXp/p2ebQJhrb7F9qNDC6BBsts0vEMPTNclrEF3ZP5E/4CcY3Bm sKlld/RHntP3uXIjgvbcPWK/TMxIRx8hnfu9Ia1NgaU935J6neZuBloPI/Rgf8oUR8EP 3KBObeGZdQyYHIA37CJXB7lCqAEk3vpmnCGHD35+ZfUtWX4zb3GhuJQO2Q+/EdnKjDYR U3mg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=DNVa6pmIrngnj+FGnvMxiNYUXGnj/FImrD/acWKg6fY=; b=c9GCorD9WYSFFsHou573xQYlFhf/HgOXdLhWuoZi1nrEo90qzQK9i97SqUEtSBzs8n Xs+IvffLMZbIYPz0+eFdgHcRBf7aiTonci5t42VrTCeU1Xds4LhMxLTCjGypBd1hF6UY aNSJCop2qAgOVTVN4u/NvHcSYDk2YzeLcpxEbC1eMUyeHWR2NhwH0vPQUqAg3Gz0TZqv gJaT34eXG1TLIB3ZC24QFdOfAkP3AGCQl5IXhBF65E+48+Il46YBUrUglCU9daW/zv0W b9N4vFcSZKo8f0OqTVol5t0iI5yEqbk4IEo5NgpNKDOItz50y+aEcNmj9MuJAtgyBIXH fyGg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw111qwk5DSSOC9hw+hl8Mhv+hvlFlgZBy8LrPSGv4h7s6iqi6TKa2 5RFC+9oZKBjvcmnZTUU= X-Received: by 10.84.253.16 with SMTP id z16mr15071354pll.81.1499641183505; Sun, 09 Jul 2017 15:59:43 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.24.55] (pl2587.ag0304.nttpc.ne.jp. [128.53.196.27]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 22sm22053539pgb.23.2017.07.09.15.59.41 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 09 Jul 2017 15:59:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83o9svl884.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c05::235 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:216381 Archived-At: > On Jul 8, 2017, at 16:04, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >=20 > I'm actually unconvinced VC warrants its own top-level menu item. > AFAIR, it's in "Tools" in every IDE I ever saw, so Emacs is not the > odd one out here. I don't write prose in other IDEs, I don't do most of the things I do in = other IDEs, or simple text editors for that matter. Besides, most = "writing environment" don't have strong version control commands at all = and you have to use the external commands to access them (macOS provides = very simple vc on a file basis where you can choose to "go back in = time", but that works only with some applications). In the Magit thread you just hinted how vc commands were important. I = don't think I'll ever need Magit for anything I need to do here (and I = found John Wiegley's bottom-up introduction to be the best thing I ever = read about git) and having a visual reminder of things I can do readily = available is very important to me as a non-expert user of git/vcs/emacs, = etc. > Also, why should that be more important than, say, > "Compile" or "Shell command" or "Compare"? "Compile" is a single command. "Shell command" too is a single command. There are no top menu slots for single commands at the moment, so they = don't compare. I can't say anything about "Compare". > That this particular > community is a heavy user of some VCS doesn't yet mean we should skew > Emacs to our specific needs, especially since most of us hardly ever > use the menus anyway. I think you may be missing the point. Version controlling is not = something that is useful only to (expert) code writers. It is useful to = (and really should be used for) any kind of writing, and visual aids are = especially useful to beginners and non-(or casual) code writer. For me, the VC menu would rather compare to the Buffer menu. It is = equally useful because they are both visual aids for concepts that the = beginner is not familiar with and after a while they can be ignored when = the user has practiced the commands enough. I guess it is just a configuration away to move VC around, but I'd = rather have it at the top by default (and move it some place else later = eventually, when I know how to configure the thing, ie. when I've become = an "expert"). Now, if you tell me how to move VC to the top, I'll do that for my = machine and will stop arguing :) Jean-Christophe=