From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Change of Lisp syntax for "fancy" quotes in Emacs 27? Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2018 18:05:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <8e6038ea-0056-4d52-8823-50f62dca8e9f@default> References: <83o9l6bhfs.fsf@gnu.org> <1fedc60d-35a7-4ff0-adbb-b6b8306d192f@default> <83wozu9f6r.fsf@gnu.org> <87r2q1r1tn.fsf@web.de> <0436a486-ace5-5bef-ec63-8955c87bb10b@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1517709920 16160 195.159.176.226 (4 Feb 2018 02:05:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2018 02:05:20 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net To: =?utf-8?B?Q2zDqW1lbnQgUGl0LUNsYXVkZWw=?= , Michael Heerdegen , Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Feb 04 03:05:15 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ei9g7-0003eU-Fi for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2018 03:05:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47005 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ei9i7-0004Lu-2O for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2018 21:07:15 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58723) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ei9h2-0004K9-Sd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2018 21:06:09 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ei9h0-0001yS-8W for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2018 21:06:08 -0500 Original-Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:54016) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ei9gv-0001x3-LP; Sat, 03 Feb 2018 21:06:01 -0500 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w1422t4T115080; Sun, 4 Feb 2018 02:05:59 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2017-10-26; bh=oEHwG60wuySV+OXFJUhwf8GGzfjvKA2yfS1ZsvXYxik=; b=m4dFd39/wVOOhnDGeW8lAfvxDlZWZ93r1M0aeApAZNUBImbI+7hwHVYw5pOkLGNhxTvM 4io/vmg6018O5jTiDwQxGeLJyx59DgEcWnyUg3w6okfATqzYOYD8Qb2y2dT5KKAjOKF0 dKvcVwM/A3t01ENo3XSwwiMXI4cP+kusBhIDsSMN55nNxIPLO+6bMCVEX31s+z3+z2Eo 5RsEM7OSs9i4pNQEcyqm2+DABR5J99osGFoRcF0PGr/ElS++Qj73ZNWnMv4FkmBCdHMw Td5lKwoRZ3CZlnWcqsebauRZ3l0/SP5ueTDKoaL5uRhu6VOu9nkjjHNYAYgJBqQyHsIA VQ== Original-Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2fw51w9nyh-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 04 Feb 2018 02:05:59 +0000 Original-Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w1425wl1025804 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 4 Feb 2018 02:05:58 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w1425vAe026405; Sun, 4 Feb 2018 02:05:57 GMT In-Reply-To: <0436a486-ace5-5bef-ec63-8955c87bb10b@gmail.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4639.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=8794 signatures=668662 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=583 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1711220000 definitions=main-1802040025 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.78 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:222481 Archived-At: > > Helpfulness of error messages surely depends on the beholder, and on > > expectations. In my eyes, > > > >> Symbol's value as variable is void: '=D0=B0bbrevs-changed > > is quite clear: you think this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ is a quoted > > thing, but the error message calls it a symbol. So there must be a > > problem with that quote, it has obviously gotten read as part of the > > symbol. Sure, you have still to find out why. >=20 > I think you're making Eli's point, actually :) >=20 > The problem isn't the quote: it's the CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER A instead of > LATIN SMALL LETTER A. IOW, (string=3D "=D0=B0bbrevs-changed" "abbrevs- > changed") is nil. >=20 > I think Eli was illustrating the confusion that can stem from Unicode > confusables (and I must agree that the error message could be much > better ^^) I too misread Eli's example as being about using a curly quote instead of an apostrophe. You're right that it's an ordinary apostrophe and the first `a' is the letter you mention. But then why would anyone ever see the quote mark in such a message? Was the message artificially configured? In any case, if that example, without the quote, say, is trying to make Eli's point, then he must be arguing for warning about using such confusables also - `=D0=B0' as a confusable for `a'. That's a monumental undertaking (take a look at the confusables.txt list). And the messages (warning or error) would need to be pretty darn clear about just what char was used and where, in order not to sow even more confusion. It sure won't cut the mustard to just say "Invalid read syntax"!