From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "David De La Harpe Golden" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Enabling Transient Mark Mode by default Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:46:07 +0000 Message-ID: <8e24944a0802201446g3329febcw190f78145e3f5c4e@mail.gmail.com> References: <87myq4saw1.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <20080219190127.GA1106@muc.de> <877ih0o9dx.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <86lk5f4fjb.fsf@timbral.net> <87ejb7babz.fsf@xmission.com> <85lk5fcod6.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1203547604 10558 80.91.229.12 (20 Feb 2008 22:46:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:46:44 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Evans Winner , Jason Earl , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "David Kastrup" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 20 23:47:08 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JRxiC-0001Wn-K8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:46:48 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JRxhh-0005OR-Md for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:46:17 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JRxhc-0005Lt-V8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:46:12 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JRxha-0005HJ-Pt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:46:12 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JRxha-0005Gw-LQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:46:10 -0500 Original-Received: from el-out-1112.google.com ([209.85.162.177]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JRxha-0007m3-BG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:46:10 -0500 Original-Received: by el-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m34so1479406ele.10 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:46:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=77kBoapOlDVQZkgF3JV5Sc6z2BwhCY1Sti9qYgOZ8zs=; b=aVfJ0pGePZtlaWC7slV4/us0EJXP0lhoUZHRV6D1ydkqtlfStFdkNSCg8RyxgqVNxEIHhrafyAjP8h53sAyFJYoxoeZTSQWrjEEryF1i8kzWunzpaN7c+bzH/1JsRUgMjmJ3l4L52wHOxQlNTozn51TpPCc+MEGYwXr1Ot3fKTw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=mpdin4A5FIARSF2LlpD83psPJ78xo+R89odZlLQzVd9eG0DKsm5uDZk5CpwqoorRd/AT7CGozeVWvpOCZ1tpQm2J/OXXMQFns8VxgekLGP8PuhX3nB5iF06oVRAJ2s6re9ZvfRzHyArABvZFRrqv5IsyiV2p1UNvsaQKnWz0VS8= Original-Received: by 10.142.212.19 with SMTP id k19mr7015558wfg.193.1203547567467; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:46:07 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.143.17.10 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:46:07 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <85lk5fcod6.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> Content-Disposition: inline X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 (Google crawlbot) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:89741 Archived-At: On 20/02/2008, David Kastrup wrote: > Jason Earl writes: > > > The alternative, as the manual points out, is to enable > > transient-mark-mode and have Emacs work like most newbies > > would expect a text editor to work. > > > You are presuming that enabling transient-mark-mode makes Emacs work > like most newbies (or people) would expect a text editor to work. > > I disagree strongly with that presumption. Other editors have marked > regions that are _independent_ of point. No doubt some might, by what editors? kedit/gedit certainly seem to handle it in a non-point-independent fashion, much like emacs, main difference is that the point may be visually hidden while their region is active and vice-versa - emacs doesn't hide the point when the region is active (nor does kedit actually, but it uses a thin intercharacter vertical line cursor. I myself have occasionally made "off by one" errors because I've mistaken a still-visible block cursor as part of the transient-mark-highlighted region in emacs, but these days they're different colours on my display so I don't do that.) It always seems to be at one end of the region though, as confirmed by hitting an unshifted cursor movement key, which insta-deactivates the region in kedit/gedit, with the cursor ending up on one side of the ex-region. And hey, keyboard region selection is by moving the point with shifted cursor keys in kedit/gedit, so I don't think "independent of point" is a sane description. Emacs with cua-selection-mode and transient mark mode really is pretty close to other editors' behaviour. Also need to adjust mouse and interprogram behaviour, but hey I've bombarded the list with (slightly less than perfect) patches to do that already. What IS very different is that most editors allow the point to move offscreen when scrolling...