From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "David De La Harpe Golden" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: OT Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 16:43:59 +0000 Message-ID: <8e24944a0802080843i2c3433c9v9558c41bab78041b@mail.gmail.com> References: <87bq6sir34.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <8e24944a0802071022i2b259c5fka14f191a3c519157@mail.gmail.com> <8e24944a0802071239r1cdc8affq7875fea0b9876560@mail.gmail.com> <8e24944a0802071850o2920041cw9de2f27c59f90148@mail.gmail.com> <20080208082620.4c93cd56@tomh> <8e24944a0802080730n29fa4a03xc2cc4fa56d14a20b@mail.gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1202489064 2510 80.91.229.12 (8 Feb 2008 16:44:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 16:44:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Tom Horsley , "Stephen J. Turnbull" , "Jan D." , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Stefan Monnier" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 08 17:44:44 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JNWL3-0004uq-SK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2008 17:44:34 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JNWKb-0003U6-6J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2008 11:44:05 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JNWKX-0003Tr-Hw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2008 11:44:01 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JNWKW-0003Tf-Qe for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2008 11:44:00 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JNWKW-0003Tc-MM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2008 11:44:00 -0500 Original-Received: from ag-out-0708.google.com ([72.14.246.245]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JNWKW-00013s-93 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2008 11:44:00 -0500 Original-Received: by ag-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id 35so8675245aga.10 for ; Fri, 08 Feb 2008 08:43:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=N7acc2UDXNXYlz6kqHi5D6PSYrog7zqFld5U2CIHmAg=; b=vT2Np2YCj6oA/gUgOXw61dwoM7tXHl/+9Os73/gGNrVWQPet8tJ+huLZtVR7GsHLeP+vThy+hYxyZCXs/ESyVgF4cwX1GosRhHo58Wc4rvEaC+aWbnSVD6btq71D3IdB9I80dC0t/nyBRotRr+FO3olM8grCMRUgqWuNLV8Abww= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=GD5L5+7c1GEKaETlhRF9LHcJhywFe/d0d+hOE989PDH1X20r8x/eOd4fYu1tBoLB/1RyqEL+x1TkxLwk5RYIAYUIKbveHgI66Q+I+RGA3sPZMqpu6q7wMo7APuZVXn7mhG3WXtuwkiSVSWKQhjIJeKrJ2ItkUjzfAtQHGtsnJTw= Original-Received: by 10.100.252.16 with SMTP id z16mr27008434anh.89.1202489039636; Fri, 08 Feb 2008 08:43:59 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.100.212.11 with HTTP; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 08:43:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: Content-Disposition: inline X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:88531 Archived-At: On 08/02/2008, Stefan Monnier wrote: > That's the theory. The practice is that every application is slightly > different, some offer mouse-1-select and mouse-2-yank, others offer > menu-copy and menu-paste, others offer both, others offer those things > via keybindings (usually without making it clear which it is) Binding issues are different to whether primary/clipboard interaction is different though. It's _much_ more confusing for the underlying interactions with clipboard and primary to be different than for the precise keyboard shortcuts to be different. Thus - for someone used to freedesktop.org behaviour, emacs using: C-w instead of C-x for cut/kill => not particularly confusing, and fixable by cua-mode anyway. C-w affecting primary not clipboard => quite confusing. C-y instead of C-v for paste/yank => not particularly confusing, and fixable by cua-mode anyway. C-y pulling in primary not clipboard => quite confusing. Selection being by C-SPC then cursor-keys instead of shift-cursor-keys => not particularly confusing, and fixable by cua-mode anyway. Selection affecting clipboard not primary => quite confusing. > Yes, if you live exclusively within Gnome or within KDE, you may be able > to get a clear mental model, but the Free world predates those things > and is much larger than that. Undoubtedly, but standardised clipboard interaction is one pretty understandable reason why some people just stop using the predating stuff in favor of stuff that's been updated to the standard model. (N.B. freedesktop.org style interaction is really rather more widely implemented than GNOME and KDE) > I've never *ever* needed to distinguish > between the CLIPBOARD and the PRIMARY. Fine, others do!