From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Karl Fogel Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: bzr repository ready? Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 01:39:12 -0500 Message-ID: <8e0e71cb0911302239x41517b1g79ed0c523d4a8c0f@mail.gmail.com> References: <87fx82856l.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87ws1cqqhm.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87skbzqgaj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87tywcg3to.fsf@red-bean.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1259649614 5700 80.91.229.12 (1 Dec 2009 06:40:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 06:40:14 +0000 (UTC) Cc: ofv@wanadoo.es, stephen@xemacs.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 01 07:40:07 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NFMP9-0001GH-0g for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Dec 2009 07:40:07 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52392 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NFMP8-0004IC-Jo for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Dec 2009 01:40:06 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NFMOQ-00044p-ML for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Dec 2009 01:39:22 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NFMOL-00043D-DT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Dec 2009 01:39:21 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=36368 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NFMOL-000438-2D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Dec 2009 01:39:17 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-ew0-f224.google.com ([209.85.219.224]:33039) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NFMOJ-0000AN-8q; Tue, 01 Dec 2009 01:39:15 -0500 Original-Received: by ewy24 with SMTP id 24so5024371ewy.26 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 22:39:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=uqse8d1L8X8ZaoYOwBYNbeoYI7AZhMcMAHyct5vEYrU=; b=X02RkKtHh/13pIsZv6sYeeqbEBtjtnRfAYDaJVMY4/iwXr0plGjtYN4rAc4Ao5F4YK z5Cjhb1N6ykcWTkanQfcdYYJrN2bjlo6ToOxbF0wBPxumsqr2lEBNv0K6CSkKnDtMMcR zrA3gHtfx/JEPE3xpQ3N565zePy3vmk4rCe/I= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=Nwyi5SG9whb4WKu9/DY1tqj+0HX3wVr7dhopFHt5Ap8RPcRU6YfCuU+hcHYY1FI2jd DK8GgYXMT5kIFMXTUOo9JVVEKhnqfZYWUuB1aPmYDqdHrnWP+qKytjLqsdcm3Rx41XJ/ f6D+rHg34UCopKPU+BqukniGiQ3MzJDFB51Rc= Original-Received: by 10.216.87.67 with SMTP id x45mr1959001wee.18.1259649552237; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 22:39:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Google-Sender-Auth: a3447252037a8dee X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:118025 Archived-At: On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 11:10 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: > =A0 =A0I think that once you have actually tried the workflow there (afte= r the > =A0 =A0switchover) you will find it is not hard to use. > > I don't expect to ever try it. =A0I am very busy, and I don't think > it will be worth the effort. =A0I am going to use the simple method. > > You're asking people to invest a substantial effort, saying they > will find it worth while. =A0Those who do a substantial amount of > use of bzr may indeed find it so. =A0But I probably won't use it > that much, so for me the investment would not be worth while. > I am sure there are many others in the same position. It's fine if you use the CVS-like method; you don't ever have to go beyond that if you don't want to. The documentation as it stands states clearly why it is better for most people to learn the dVCS method. Those people (like you) who know that they do not want it do not have to learn the dVCS way. Elsewhere you wrote: > You are pushing too hard for people to use the more complex dVCS > workflow. You are pushing the Bazaar-knowledgeable people on this list to support a workflow they themselves rarely use, and that they find counterintuitive. (And it's not "more complex". It's different; to those who are accustomed to it, it's simpler.) As far as I can tell, all of those working on this migration who actually have experience migrating other people and projects from centralized systems to Bazaar agree that strongly encouraging the dVCS workflow is the best thing to do. You do not have that experience, so I'm not sure what your opposite opinion is based on. It's fine if some people consciously choose to hang back and continue to use a centralized-style workflow -- no one has a problem with that. I'll even answer questions about it when I am able to. But there is no reason for the project as a whole to encourage it. And since you already know what you are going to do, you are not really harmed or impeded by documentation that recommends a different way as the default but also documents the way you want to work. So I don't understand your objection. The CVS-like documentation exists; it is referred to prominently from the top of the dVCS documentation; and the relationship between the two is perfectly clear. If you want those of us writing it to also pretend neutrality between the two ways ourselves, that's not going to happen. -Karl