From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2020 15:21:21 +0300 Message-ID: <8da08209-16da-5a21-d60a-8198631dcf85@yandex.ru> References: <20200910231420.kvqg6ohvxetpup5c.ref@Ergus> <20200910231420.kvqg6ohvxetpup5c@Ergus> <83zh5whl5p.fsf@gnu.org> <83mu1whac7.fsf@gnu.org> <83imckh9yt.fsf@gnu.org> <83ft7oh63h.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="3356"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 Cc: rekado@elephly.net, ghe@sdf.org, spacibba@aol.com, drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 11 14:22:09 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kGi46-0000gp-Sf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 14:22:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56356 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGi45-0004cO-Ul for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 08:22:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59230) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGi3X-0004CP-BU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 08:21:31 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf1-x136.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::136]:36724) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGi3S-000807-Ty; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 08:21:29 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-x136.google.com with SMTP id x69so5643137lff.3; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 05:21:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=MVsoIu+eENrImiEPLiRBB9VDxzEMh4dQnlqUz5Ewmjw=; b=TNpe+fqbdTV7ySItto6rjh31exPUJEbHakawzfS9+MsT4SyxM521xMJ3+FTe9259Qq ehfk5xDda8AbhaGzbL6MK9kZCBkLa9bCCm8O96Ux5UHUAGIbA+rKHgO8m9pWvIfA8URr pZY+q1TaZ1bUDMyDw94dUGtUgrY2RJFQqaFQUk8WXvVFJZhjQs9qA37a7MDPylY8Y9qR snytYOPopnH3JCZzt35ckc+aw42f6qQ3HWO7+XgYfvRIsjhWswLavfRiMYRN0MQali66 0JQVNtU8LNnFokpC+T32lrs1wRjYOBqEUGIbqW7+l8IZN7HHunhaB9Amxu0v9Eny6IlE 90uw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=MVsoIu+eENrImiEPLiRBB9VDxzEMh4dQnlqUz5Ewmjw=; b=SZAhH5XBA/YmeV1RsqmRoO9/dv6MTCo/iXAv2xsGVsNbNpkhzn8Uct4ixE4X8ZsodD QDMdJnb1/rw1Ikq1VFVsTEv+JQB/8E5OtnrCnwRo7Jg1KX+m5PTse5WGayIy8Scd6MCS 3WnF8g20UCRnS9WKBQlx04e4IMT7x8YYf0KQFi/AR3cke07N8Ko/9enbsaWo0zCflljT lgvr3SEqHHIFW06MmizpGlKpUAotH/nqnlAqMSrUl3VNzfhUYQX2bNLnBXbZJC2jXCbX QnfnzS8PoadqIVsRGeeFHbroAcwsbbxNiYGf5gQIpUVuJr28WdS65mARZer52h0f9K+O VrjQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530ZEuDnZn2RM4knqkvHE4V999jmDSjTVlSsYQpRXKyAiqb2ng8c VzMOzNjhyFDVUhNhFlr0GJkRRcXUCC1o9w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzUgMUdfDs57B48Fen3IDka07NNJ3iuGdiiWuU2nm75P7utZqW8XqUoVvXEI5zeejFoUV5toA== X-Received: by 2002:ac2:5e87:: with SMTP id b7mr664020lfq.151.1599826883376; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 05:21:23 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.104] ([94.229.108.16]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id c3sm415998lfg.15.2020.09.11.05.21.22 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 11 Sep 2020 05:21:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83ft7oh63h.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::136; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x136.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -39 X-Spam_score: -4.0 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.0 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, NICE_REPLY_A=-2.469, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255153 Archived-At: On 11.09.2020 15:04, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Cc: rekado@elephly.net, ghe@sdf.org, spacibba@aol.com, drew.adams@oracle.com, >> emacs-devel@gnu.org >> From: Dmitry Gutov >> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2020 14:09:17 +0300 >> >> On 11.09.2020 13:41, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>> If people prefer that, we could change the binding, I won't object. >> >> But then we'll have no binding for `undo-redo`, just a menu item? >> >> Or would you be fine with adding a binding for it too? > > Why do we need a binding for it in the default configuration? Not > every command available through the menus has a keybinding by default. Existing user expectations, regarding undo-redo, coming from just about any other editor or software with text inputs (such as Firefox). I'm pretty confident that any user that will use 'redo' from the menu will look for the binding for it. Also: we do make an effort to create key bindings for commands that we anticipate will be used often. If the user uses 'redo' at all, they will do it frequently. Additionally, the difference between 'undo' and 'undo-only' is likely to be surprising for such users.