How much I can rely on etc/TODO

How much I can rely on etc/TODO

[Sameer Rahmani]

Hi folks,

I was wondering, How much I can rely on `etc/TODO` file a list of TODOs 
which I can pickup ?

most of the stuff on that file is pretty old.


Cheers

Sameer

Re: How much I can rely on etc/TODO

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Sameer Rahmani <lxsameer@gnu.org>
> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2019 18:52:30 +0100
> 
> I was wondering, How much I can rely on `etc/TODO` file a list of TODOs 
> which I can pickup ?

You can rely on that -- most of the items are still valid, AFAICT --
but better ask before you decide on something.

TIA

Re: How much I can rely on etc/TODO

[Sameer Rahmani]

I'm looking for something simple:

what about:

```

** Add "link" button class
    Add a standard button-class named "link", and make all other link-like
    button classes inherit from it.  Set the default face of the "link" 
button
    class to the standard "link" face.
```

or

```

** Make byte-compile warn when a doc string is too wide.
```

or

```

** Give desktop.el a feature to switch between different named desktops.

```


Cheers

Sameer


On 08/04/2019 18:59, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> From: Sameer Rahmani <lxsameer@gnu.org>
>> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2019 18:52:30 +0100
>>
>> I was wondering, How much I can rely on `etc/TODO` file a list of TODOs
>> which I can pickup ?
> You can rely on that -- most of the items are still valid, AFAICT --
> but better ask before you decide on something.
>
> TIA
>
>
>

Re: How much I can rely on etc/TODO

[Basil L. Contovounesios]

[CCing Miles as the author of the button TODO note.]

Sameer Rahmani <lxsameer@gnu.org> writes:

> I'm looking for something simple:
>
> what about:
>
> ```
>
> ** Add "link" button class
>    Add a standard button-class named "link", and make all other link-like
>    button classes inherit from it.  Set the default face of the "link" button
>    class to the standard "link" face.
> ```

This TODO was added in Emacs 22.1[1], and the button face was made to
inherit from the link face in Emacs 24.1[2].  This means that all
buttons are "links" by default now, which makes sense to me, so I think
this TODO note can be deleted, right?

[1: f57dad5a17]: Add note about "link" button-class to etc/TODO
  2006-06-30 01:54:34 +0000
  https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit/?id=f57dad5a179abca70554c4bf249b2dc6efd32fff

[2: 605dd5bf4d]: * lisp/button.el (button): Inherit from link face. Suggested by Dan Nicolaescu.
  2011-07-05 16:44:55 -0400
  https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit/?id=605dd5bf4ddbe61a4843c5179a38870bb1788432

Thanks,

-- 
Basil

Re: How much I can rely on etc/TODO

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

It would be a useful thing to update etc/TODO.
How many years has it been since we last did so?

There is no need to study every item carefully.  Correcting the items
that clearly do need correcting would be a good thing to do, and not
so much work.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: How much I can rely on etc/TODO

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Cc: lxsameer@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2019 18:14:26 -0400
> 
> It would be a useful thing to update etc/TODO.

We do that from time to time.  We never stopped.

> How many years has it been since we last did so?

The last non-trivial change was a year ago.  The one before that, 2
years ago.

> There is no need to study every item carefully.  Correcting the items
> that clearly do need correcting would be a good thing to do, and not
> so much work.

That's exactly what is being done, AFAICT.

Re: How much I can rely on etc/TODO

[lxsameer]

So is "Give desktop.el a feature to switch between different named 
desktops. " still valid ?


Cheers

Sameer

On 4/9/19 7:03 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
>> Cc: lxsameer@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>> Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2019 18:14:26 -0400
>>
>> It would be a useful thing to update etc/TODO.
> We do that from time to time.  We never stopped.
>
>> How many years has it been since we last did so?
> The last non-trivial change was a year ago.  The one before that, 2
> years ago.
>
>> There is no need to study every item carefully.  Correcting the items
>> that clearly do need correcting would be a good thing to do, and not
>> so much work.
> That's exactly what is being done, AFAICT.
>
>
>

Re: How much I can rely on etc/TODO

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: lxsameer <lxsameer@gnu.org>
> Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2019 08:50:14 +0100
> 
> So is "Give desktop.el a feature to switch between different named 
> desktops. " still valid ?

Yes, I think so.  The only existing way of controlling which desktop
file is to be loaded is AFAIK either by specifying an explicit
directory when invoking desktop-read, or by customizing desktop-path.

Re: How much I can rely on etc/TODO

[Sergey Organov]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: lxsameer <lxsameer@gnu.org>
>> Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2019 08:50:14 +0100
>> 
>> So is "Give desktop.el a feature to switch between different named 
>> desktops. " still valid ?
>
> Yes, I think so.  The only existing way of controlling which desktop
> file is to be loaded is AFAIK either by specifying an explicit
> directory when invoking desktop-read, or by customizing desktop-path.

For about 15 years already we use package I wrote called 'desksess.el'
that does this (and a little bit more) atop of 'desktop.el' (and
'session.el'). I can share it if anybody is interested. Nothing very
fancy, but I think it could be useful at least as a source of some
inspirations.

Here is short package description (some statements about 'desktop.el'
could well be very outdated):

;; This package is a wrapper above desktop.el and session.el and depends on
;; them. Unfortunately each of these two nice packages lack essential
;; features available in another:
;;
;; session.el:
;;   - no capability to save non-list globals
;;   - no way to save/restore desktop state (to visit files on startup that
;;     have been visited before exit)
;;
;; desktop.el:
;;   - desktop files scattered over file-system
;;   - no recent files menu capability
;;   - no capability to save/restore point and other locals when previously
;;     visited file is closed and re-opened later
;;
;; The desksess.el tries to use the above two packages to provide more
;; comprehensive and convenient desktop save/restore/switch capabilities.
;;
;; Unlike desktop.el, we store all desktops in a single directory and
;; refer to them by their names, either through menu or commands, so
;; one has single list of all the available desktops. Though loading
;; of arbitrary desktop files is also supported, it's not the primary
;; workflow mode.
;;
;; The package has been extensively tested on Emacs 23.x an 24.4.1.

-- Sergey

RE: How much I can rely on etc/TODO

[Drew Adams]

> So is "Give desktop.el a feature to switch between
> different named desktops." still valid ?

Dunno just what was meant by that item, but my
guess is yes, it probably is still valid.

---

Bookmark+ lets you create bookmarks to desktops,
and so switch among them easily.  `desktop.el'
still does not let you switch among arbitrary
desktop files AFAIK.  But it could...

But this Bookmark+ facility is based partly on
the fact that it has `bmkp-desktop-read', which
lets you load a particular desktop file.

Similarly, function `bmkp-desktop-change-dir'
accepts a desktop file as arg.

`desktop.el' still does not allow this AFAIK.

It's still based on the assumption/restriction
that you can have only one desktop file per
directory.

There's no good reason for this, IMO - a
desktop file could be anywhere.  In particular,
there could be multiple desktop files in the
same directory.  The directory orientation of
`desktop.el' is an unnecessary encumbrance
(which has never served any useful purpose
AFAIK).

`bmkp-desktop-read' & `bmkp-desktop-change-dir'
are based on `desktop-read' & `desktop-change-dir'.
The difference they offer is to accept a desktop
file as arg.  Pretty simple change, but it makes
a big difference in how you can use desktops.

Neither of those `bmkp-*' functions has, itself,
anything to do with bookmarks.  They or similar
could easily be added to `desktop.el', to make
desktops and desktop switching more flexible.

That would be a good start toward fulfilling
that TODO wish.  It might even be all that's
needed.  Well, on its own it doesn't provide
the desktop naming.  (Bookmark names provide
that for Bookmark+.)  But naming should be
trivial - a start would be to use the desktop
file name or a name derived from it, as
default.

[FWIW, I've mentioned this before, including
years ago.]

https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/download/bookmark%2b-1.el

Re: How much I can rely on etc/TODO

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > > How many years has it been since we last did so?

  > The last non-trivial change was a year ago.  The one before that, 2
  > years ago.

It sounds like we're updating the file just fine,
but we're not doing much works on the tasks listed in it.

We're adding a lot of features to Emacs, but not based on plans.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: How much I can rely on etc/TODO

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Cc: lxsameer@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2019 19:13:33 -0400
> 
>   > The last non-trivial change was a year ago.  The one before that, 2
>   > years ago.
> 
> It sounds like we're updating the file just fine,
> but we're not doing much works on the tasks listed in it.

Was it ever different?  If it was, I don't remember.

> We're adding a lot of features to Emacs, but not based on plans.

I don't remember Emacs development ever advancing according to plan.
It would be nice to have that, I agree, but I don't think it's
possible in practice.  People work on what they feel like working;
telling them something else is much more important for Emacs is
unlikely to change their preferences.

Re: How much I can rely on etc/TODO

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > I don't remember Emacs development ever advancing according to plan.
  > It would be nice to have that, I agree, but I don't think it's
  > possible in practice.  People work on what they feel like working;

That's the attitude that Emacs developers have now.  But it is not
inevitable.  Let's try to lead and inspire people to work on some
things that would be a big advance.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: How much I can rely on etc/TODO

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, lxsameer@gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2019 17:53:03 -0400
> 
>   > I don't remember Emacs development ever advancing according to plan.
>   > It would be nice to have that, I agree, but I don't think it's
>   > possible in practice.  People work on what they feel like working;
> 
> That's the attitude that Emacs developers have now.  But it is not
> inevitable.  Let's try to lead and inspire people to work on some
> things that would be a big advance.

I described the end result, as I see it.  It doesn't follow in any way
that this result is due to some negative "attitude" or to lack of
trying to lead.  In fact, assuming that is IMO unfair to say the
least.  We all know that one could try as best one can, and have the
best intentions and vision, and still fail to reach the goal.

Re: How much I can rely on etc/TODO

[Van L]

  >> I don't remember Emacs development ever advancing according to plan.
  >> It would be nice to have that, I agree, but I don't think it's
  >> possible in practice.  People work on what they feel like working;

> That's the attitude that Emacs developers have now.  But it is not
> inevitable.  Let's try to lead and inspire people to work on some
> things that would be a big advance.

Just imagine. A SNERT (or hacker) is at console on those two doomed
Boeing 737 MAX 8 flights, recently. That person using GNU/Emacs
Augmented With AI is able to reason with all available diagnostics data
to within the 40 seconds available and save the day for 360+ passengers.

The robust back-and-forth you witness here between demonstrable experts
should kill the cheapskating single point of failure in design of Boeing
737 Max 8 MCAS, undocumented presence of MCAS, no training for MCAS, and
$80K extra on top of the hefty $120M Boeing 737 Max 8 per aeroplane for
*disagree* instrument panel safety warning light.

FSF: Flight Safety Foundation