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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=userp2130.oracle.com X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:261212 Archived-At: > The only disagreement is whether such an option should be > enabled by default for changes made via the menus, I think. There's not even any real disagreement there, I think. My reflex is to not change default behavior willy nilly, but case-by-case is the right approach to take when considering such changes. ___ My opinion about this general question is that both behaviors can be useful. And each is typically more useful for some kinds of option changing/setting. A behavior that I'm likely to toggle often within a given Emacs session is one whose last state I typically do not want to save for the next Emacs session. A behavior that I'm not likely to change often is one whose last state I might well want to save for the next browser session. (Or I might not.) For the latter, think of web browser settings. When I change such a setting I don't need to explicitly "save" settings - and that's "natural" behavior. That's the kind of thing I think you were thinking of when saying that users are used to such behavior and expect it. [You can see that not only do I think this applies to _some_ users. I think it can apply to the _same_ user _some_ of the time.] For the former, think of, say, toggling option `case-fold-search'. I might do that many times in the same Emacs session. I generally want its saved value to reflect my preference for the _default_ behavior (which in my case is case-sensitive search). I don't want it to reflect the last case-fold state of my last search in my last session. Note that vanilla Emacs goes out of its way to have most of its commands that toggle behavior such as case folding NOT change the option value. To toggle the option value you use a specific command for that. E.g., when you toggle case folding during Isearch that doesn't change the option value. ___ Personally, I think that for some commands it can make sense to let users toggle _either_ the option value or a temporary state. (Note: toggling an option value is different from doing that and also saving the value. That too can be a user preference for this or that option.) For example, in Isearch+ there's even an option, `isearchp-toggle-option-flag', that controls this: Non-nil means Isearch toggling commands can affect option values. If nil, the option value remains unchanged - the effect is temporary. Applies to toggle commands for behavior that has an associated user option. Currently this means `M-s i' (`isearch-toggle-invisible') and `M-c' (`isearch-toggle-case-fold'). If that option is nil then toggling case folding is temporary, i.e., for the current Isearch invocation only. If non-nil then the change persists for future invocations in the same session. Similarly, `isearchp-auto-keep-filter-predicate-flag': Non-nil means automatically apply `C-z s'. Changes to `isearch-filter-predicate' are automatically kept for subsequent searches in this Emacs session when you exit Isearch'. You can toggle this option using `C-z S during Isearch.