From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Merging feature/android Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2023 03:14:55 -0800 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <8c5491b8-8337-7d57-65dc-a41f8c62d0d2@cs.ucla.edu> References: <87edq7ztks.fsf.ref@yahoo.com> <87fsanxoah.fsf@yahoo.com> <83zg8vckx5.fsf@gnu.org> <87bklay7wg.fsf@yahoo.com> <83ilficn4k.fsf@gnu.org> <87zg8uw9b9.fsf@yahoo.com> <837cvycjse.fsf@gnu.org> <87ttz2w4c3.fsf@yahoo.com> <83356mcbxw.fsf@gnu.org> <87pm9qvu9w.fsf@yahoo.com> <83y1odc37g.fsf@gnu.org> <87cz5pwf9c.fsf@yahoo.com> <83edq5asb3.fsf@gnu.org> <875ybhvt4w.fsf@yahoo.com> <83356kbxnh.fsf@gnu.org> <87lekcvho4.fsf@yahoo.com> <83r0u4adgd.fsf@gnu.org> <87a60suknn.fsf@yahoo.com> <563e9da9-c45e-a4d2-6dda-074ac035c256@cs.ucla.edu> <871qm3vqez.fsf@yahoo.com> <154a7bcc-f42d-21f1-1780-2dc3bb5443eb@cs.ucla.edu> <87bkl7traf.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39274"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.7.1 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Mar 05 12:15:47 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pYmLD-000A4i-6v for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 05 Mar 2023 12:15:47 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pYmKX-00012Y-0r; Sun, 05 Mar 2023 06:15:05 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pYmKU-00012K-BE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 05 Mar 2023 06:15:02 -0500 Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pYmKR-0001qQ-4B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 05 Mar 2023 06:15:01 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75F6E16004A; Sun, 5 Mar 2023 03:14:56 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id zt2GEdLD0pu7; Sun, 5 Mar 2023 03:14:55 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B2DE160086; Sun, 5 Mar 2023 03:14:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.9.2 zimbra.cs.ucla.edu 6B2DE160086 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cs.ucla.edu; s=78364E5A-2AF3-11ED-87FA-8298ECA2D365; t=1678014895; bh=eqL6IlvJaIw3xzqqJHGtvYNc+uqzhT2tEfATFXaw/LA=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:To:From:Subject:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=KxsXDDSTigxhSEjOWALDTsxn+E7iXmFRR+xQ3gZBXIfrceCo16WYuHERZuah9C4nD E9r32foDbOsLsJYjenjWrJTSf37CHdpfhKY00gZYvuOzCDJjGzMxU+OFYCFy8tWFSy rEDVXIxFNfoz4GmqQ5+yvx9lpSqiOYXHnciQSra4= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 4gvhn5ngq_A6; Sun, 5 Mar 2023 03:14:55 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.9] (cpe-172-91-119-151.socal.res.rr.com [172.91.119.151]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4466416004A; Sun, 5 Mar 2023 03:14:55 -0800 (PST) Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <87bkl7traf.fsf@yahoo.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=131.179.128.68; envelope-from=eggert@cs.ucla.edu; helo=zimbra.cs.ucla.edu X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.089, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:303975 Archived-At: On 2023-03-05 02:40, Po Lu wrote: > But nothing prevents us from making this tiny change to our configury to > make Emacs work with those old compilers. It may not be as simple as we'd like. If it involves testing the Android runtime then we could well be out of luck. If it's merely testing whether the compiler crashes then we may be OK (it partly depends on how "reliably" the compiler crashes :-). > It is best to follow the Autoconf Way. Otherwise, we will be heading > back to the age where configure looked for the a m/ header and then ran > Makefile.c through sed and cpp. In Gnulib we prefer to follow the Autoconf Way. However, sometimes it's easier not to, such as when there are hard-to-test runtime errors or flaky compiler errors; in these cases we don't. > I cannot agree with this statement when I see every day my relatives and > coworkers using such old versions of Android, which are also supported > by many proprietary software developers. In the end it's up to you as to how you will spend your own time. However, I can't recommend that we significantly complicate Emacs for every developer, merely to cater to people running old, unsupported versions of Android with well-known security bugs that bad actors are targeting. Overall I expect that would be a net minus for the GNU project. > An old version of the NDK works fine, and is in fact still supported by > Google (r16 is provided in the SDK manager's downloads page as an LTS > release), aside from having this nasty compiler problem. Simply publishing downloads of old releases is not the same as supporting the releases. By "supported" I mean Google will fix serious bugs, such as security bugs, in the old releases. We don't want people building Emacs with serious security bugs. As I understand it, r16 is no longer supported by Google. I'm basing my understanding on the listing of the r16b download on the Android NDK "Unsupported Downloads" wiki . If I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me; I'm certainly no expert on the NDK.