From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Stepping Back: A Wealth Of Completion systems Re: [ELPA] New package: vertico Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 20:16:29 +0300 Message-ID: <8b54a223-1359-a8da-61c2-d7947b1c201a@yandex.ru> References: <9c9af088-580f-9fb1-4d79-237a74ce605c@inventati.org> <874kgkxxs0.fsf@posteo.net> <78741fe6-2612-d7c9-2bc4-0b68ea7fa51a@yandex.ru> <76a4d0e2-117b-165d-d56e-5bc2f504b50c@yandex.ru> <87blapln0r.fsf@posteo.net> <37bd2e96-ce04-eb6d-24da-fdd7ea427e61@yandex.ru> <87im4wx2ct.fsf@posteo.net> <83ft0080hi.fsf@gnu.org> <16784f40-b959-9a84-65d4-93b71d1bebec@yandex.ru> <837dla7ghj.fsf@gnu.org> <83lf9q5r7k.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnt957rc.fsf@posteo.net> <837dl93ppw.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="18136"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: Eli Zaretskii , Philip Kaludercic Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 11 19:17:28 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lVdiC-0004cb-Nw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 19:17:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57458 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lVdiB-0006oK-PL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 13:17:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39928) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lVdhM-0006OC-GI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 13:16:36 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ej1-x62e.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::62e]:35797) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lVdhK-0004H8-Nh; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 13:16:36 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ej1-x62e.google.com with SMTP id u17so16428781ejk.2; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 10:16:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=nU6IEj4EetUOzQ5xftRUSdOYF/dvMilJcBN9tr/IUYE=; b=Jwo+kKyGooyrUjjzjqHPN+0w+XCoQUctiFsF8ncGZeVJfqUaUzf6UwExX8Z/bE2ONX 69ve5HVpdt9SE3hCLxA0XRUO1vH165KWSFVQYtBc1vfv8Vdo1pbZVr61JUb9hnmbHyQs P6Tef6pqEBk8LvEm4hvWXWN+yOzm21d6bJBSR1WZD7Yj9zhPMRGHwYJKZgCkTYS1DoPp z12Zup4VWnsHn1EpXF0udGT3+lhfAJtPBQQF77I41FbesWWQscG2eTZQ9gyFExbIRY7C zObx4sfEhpODHt24rwEbAPFRlM+PHmAhgGJ2f6je5/exYT6yIy7X6QUeXDBgguVjDrQE U3cg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=nU6IEj4EetUOzQ5xftRUSdOYF/dvMilJcBN9tr/IUYE=; b=pqcrd8AcfSG33c9usbh54eBnr5+bBTWs1GTFZmfo/QEU5/K/gqFPFHtupFYRPdZ5rU UhaPM7raaiaNFvlLEmMPuBXlOE1+YJs3lcfzWx8sLHc83ojZKu9Cu59VZmAdKwGXRzO7 pqQzz9aNbCCindLdOhBwIYuD9Sdluq0Vnub3rjfce3WFLy65O3BFnnf73Bx+JYmn3968 hbCqOq4aO1e0qKlp5dENx5jZDS5EQrQEq+hiK8uY8EkcUNWYfUAIYprTOpma4OVmMUGQ cVXlBOnX+6tQiQ6Crx4DnK0n9sgkQ0JMtJEo4b6f7ZJmrFnZ15EsFrO7W5W10FsxRipA Rw+Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533zlBiYPlrjXd9rV4ANHhx++OuGw7D9Eq8LENq/qB2wn5XnH15p lLcY14J+WPVdWXSMcTxowtE4Vn5g7JA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzfUwqv1Cih4yJQD95xVjnwqTQHEuuu0dLDtd9dEeWp6baR6roGiNTaQiuS5r/9SsmKKT7URg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:7745:: with SMTP id kx5mr23832246ejc.3.1618161393068; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 10:16:33 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.6] ([46.251.119.176]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id z20sm5028293edd.0.2021.04.11.10.16.30 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 11 Apr 2021 10:16:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <837dl93ppw.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::62e; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-ej1-x62e.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:267905 Archived-At: On 11.04.2021 16:39, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>> I don't think the distinction matters here. We are discussing if >>> candidates should be shown eagerly, and my answer is "yes". >> Are you using an alternative completion framework? I find it interesting >> how some people agree with the distinction and others don't, and wonder >> if the way they use Emacs shapes their opinion. > My theory is that some people prefer the selection-type of completion, > and others (like me) don't. I don't see a reason to try to settle the > difference, it's a matter of personal preferences and past experience. I agree we should be able to keep both kinds of completion and let the users choose they generally prefer, that's why I made emphasis on which usages really *can't* employ the wrong kind of completion (and thus would generally follow the programmer's hint and not the user customization). I do think it's unfortunate you're adamant about using only one of these approaches, because we're missing out on valuable feedback and recommendations this way (and maybe some strategic support), but it's not a blocker of any kind, for this or related issues. When I think back, though, and recall that you also agreed that more "IDE features" are important to have in Emacs, I believe that at some point in the future, as we're making progress on that path, some defaults will need to change, because AFAIK the vast majority of current "IDE" users are used to the selection-type completion, and so one is pretty strongly associated with the other. Again, not necessarily, but it would make sense.