From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: dash.el [was: Re: Imports / inclusion of s.el into Emacs] Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 03:24:49 +0300 Message-ID: <89cc0eec-ebaa-1605-9f10-52fdf7140322@yandex.ru> References: <4e937898-ae46-710a-cbca-e452a1156fa1@yandex.ru> <96bf0b6e-3559-ed02-5596-6a6642188309@yandex.ru> <93a7bb1c-390f-440f-02cc-6cce39ea9431@yandex.ru> <87k1175sl3.fsf@gmail.com> <2a43cea0-8e00-3c22-3ddc-eff29fc9b2db@yandex.ru> <87d06y4kze.fsf@gmail.com> <712d7134-b8ef-b843-bb20-152717092497@yandex.ru> <87367s1bxu.fsf@gmail.com> <90325e25-7a44-0068-9294-91afda7ed953@yandex.ru> <87pnawyr9t.fsf@gmail.com> <87mu5zyctg.fsf@gmail.com> <58e1a8c7-59a7-b9dd-7260-726d3e137927@yandex.ru> <871rnby0kz.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="73581"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 Cc: Richard Stallman , joostkremers@fastmail.fm, emacs-devel , "Alfred M. 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That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:251252 Archived-At: On 23.05.2020 03:08, João Távora wrote: > Dmitry Gutov writes: > >> I don't think that's what "integrated" means. > > Why not? You find the Rust file, activate Eglot and it starts working. > Some major modes might even automate the second step, if it's cheap. I > know people really like `eglot-ensure`, which that starts up a server > automatically. It's less "integrated" than what that other mode is doing. So worst case scenario, people will point out that Emacs core has released something not entirely complete while there is a package with all batteries included. >> If the LSP settings are broken or outdated, however, the user are more >> likely to see that as Eglot being broken or obsolete. > > I've explained this has specific to do with LSP. It's the fact that you > rely on an external program. Emacs does that all the time, with aspell, > shell programs, so nothing different here. Aren't you ruby-mode > maintainer? Doesn't it call the rubocop program? Is it rotting > frequently? Again, examples of much simpler programs. And historically stable. And Rubocop has its own, well-documented configuration interface (text file) that's expected to be edited by users. >>> Of course, as you know, the whole point of LSP to start with is to make >>> these obsolete. >> Some basic idea was like that, maybe. But then the reality >> intervened. And people value features more than stability. > > I don't think it's very bad, the fact that only minor customization is > needed for a small set of servers means the idea is mostly solid. It's > a question of good defaults, mostly. And growing the protocol. And of every major mode author making the effort to familiarize themselves with this stuff, apparently. >> And I'm fairly sure language servers will continue to provide their >> ad-hoc extensions because different languages have different needs. > > Yes, true, but from these two years I've been seeing less and less of > that. I bet a good majority of the servers Eglot supports work out of > the box, no special customization. pyls, clangd, the javascript one, > and probably many of the other simpler ones. You might be forgetting that Eglot doesn't exactly support _all_ the features that languages servers offer. At least, that's my impression of your answer to the question about refactoring actions. And take the lsp-rust example again: https://github.com/emacs-lsp/lsp-mode/blob/057e8789638a0bf493930637185694b6b09ea58e/lsp-rust.el#L259-L283 There are 24 settings there. Perhaps half is outdated or unimportant. Who will be responsible for setting them and choosing their values?