From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Infrastructure proposal (Re: Translating Emacs manuals is of strategic importance) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2024 08:20:51 +0000 Message-ID: <88006F20-3C13-4E70-BD64-653D896F1DBD@traductaire-libre.org> References: <91D00B9D-0057-4748-8C83-50E749FE3961@traductaire-libre.org> <835y0b29rk.fsf@gnu.org> <87r0iz3lx0.fsf@yahoo.com> <877ckqa6m5.fsf@yahoo.com> <71CE52FF-41E1-400F-8B2E-06570F6199EC@traductaire-libre.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20578"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Po Lu , Eli Zaretskii , =?utf-8?Q?Vincent_Bela=C3=AFche?= , emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 05 09:58:30 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rLg29-00058w-N9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2024 09:58:29 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rLg1O-0007Wc-Ij; Fri, 05 Jan 2024 03:57:42 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rLfSA-00026O-5N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2024 03:21:18 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-4022.proton.ch ([185.70.40.22]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rLfS6-0007So-LA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2024 03:21:17 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=traductaire-libre.org; s=protonmail; t=1704442870; x=1704702070; bh=4cGwlRbFpaRoNiGVZjOjLW16IlQ/BhuJJHCPDxitLXQ=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=V7E1Ifmu2nwXW1lPgV9XHVGPUCDNz/cqiHN8Zdhyc1cxfcDOn0yGbsmE5TQGbLzUX XQn1J8cgX5KSsJ/JMKJISpn14f7AnBrGBkrnnlDuRDQBOi7gP3LaHoPnrE9yyBSiJi vY1PQURj2tp0kuTty3KRuywoHeDvcSrICN+zOjDDaCqKyP9maSdjYWt7UYRzknCI1q nrJ1hq0mh6K+vfq/OfY6InyBkAggHrboIqvTvn6ePKY3deArvaG6gAfRsEAgXdCb0d e8QWrLoaH+h5U1N9cLXdWMaMgXmxw+2cLcaEZVylAuUFX3UvGCu9teLa9frWn9+hx1 1VSB7AELCaqFA== In-Reply-To: Feedback-ID: 92162971:user:proton Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.40.22; envelope-from=jean.christophe.helary@traductaire-libre.org; helo=mail-4022.proton.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 05 Jan 2024 03:57:38 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:314564 Archived-At: > On Jan 5, 2024, at 9:35, Stefan Kangas wrote: >=20 > Jean-Christophe Helary > writes: >=20 >> Using PO for the manuals will bring to the Emacs community a >> considerable number of qualified and experienced free software >> translator teams. >>=20 >> It will also have the benefit of allowing the easy conversion of >> already existing translations so that they can be provided to teams who >> want to update them. >=20 > At the very least, it should be well worth our time to open the door. > Then we will see what type of interest and contributions we can garner. > Maybe it will take some time. >=20 > This is why I think it would make sense to get our basic processes in > place. * translation and proofreading/validation Now that we have emacs/doc/lang/[lg], what do you think of having=20 something like emacs/doc/lang/drafts/[lg], where people would commit=20 draughts to be proofread/validated? Let=E2=80=99s say that we=E2=80=99d have a committer per language (what= =E2=80=99s called a=20 =E2=80=9Clanguage lead=E2=80=9D). Contributors would send her the draughts = they have=20 worked on. The lead would commit the file to /drafts/[lg] and make a=20 call here for proofreaders, for ex: ``` Subject: [FR] emacs-gnutls.texi ready for proofreading emacs-gnutls.texi est pr=C3=AAt pour la r=C3=A9vision. Utilisez cette liste= pour=20 =C3=A9changer sur les probl=C3=A8mes importants et pour envoyer vos patches= . ``` or something similar. And interested parties would do their things: discuss issues here, in=20 French, or Japanese, or Chinese, depending on the target language or=20 send patches, etc. For some manuals, there could be groups that already have an=20 infrastructure for translation, like what is emerging for org-mode. In=20 such cases, the group could send a final document right away for=20 committing, considering that all the validation has taken place=20 upstream. * version numbers We=E2=80=99d need to have somewhere in the translation the base commit numb= er=20 of the English original, so that when the file is in=20 emacs/doc/lang/[lg] people know how recent the document is. * reduction of redundant work To make sure people don=E2=80=99t translate documents that are already work= ed=20 on, we=E2=80=99d need a matrix where the files are assigned, and willing=20 contributors could check the matrix and would also announce their=20 willingness to work on such and such chapter here (pretty much like the=20 W3C does for its translation process), for ex: ``` Subject: [FR] quelqu=E2=80=99un travaille sur ido.texi ? J=E2=80=99ai v=C3=A9rifi=C3=A9 la table des assignations et on dirait que p= ersonne ne=20 travaille sur ido.texi. Je peux le prendre ? ``` * technical requirements An extra step would be a technical requirement that the file was=20 properly checked for spelling/grammar with the tools that Emacs=20 provides and that it properly builds on the various systems where it=20 was handled, to ensure that the lead does not have to do too much grunt=20 work on the deliverables. * information We=E2=80=99d need a readme file to make all that explicit. * publication For each emacs release, the texi files would be compiled into=20 appropriate formats (minimally info) so that people can easily install=20 them. I think we basically only need these =E2=80=9Csteps=E2=80=9D here (besides = for the=20 copyright assignment). All the rest would grow =E2=80=9Corganically= =E2=80=9D behind the=20 scenes. Have I missed something? --=20 Jean-Christophe Helary @jchelary@emacs.ch https://traductaire-libre.org https://mac4translators.blogspot.com https://sr.ht/~brandelune/omegat-as-a-book/