From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: lisp/ChangeLog coding system Date: 29 Apr 2002 10:10:10 +0900 Organization: The XEmacs Project Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: <87znzn48el.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <86g01i8qoa.fsf@gerd.dnsq.org> <200204272241.g3RMfqI05559@aztec.santafe.edu> <6923-Sun28Apr2002212223+0300-eliz@is.elta.co.il> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1020042764 27548 127.0.0.1 (29 Apr 2002 01:12:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 01:12:44 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 171zid-0007AD-00 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 03:12:43 +0200 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 171zm9-0006gn-00 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 03:16:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 171ziD-0003YS-00; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 21:12:17 -0400 Original-Received: from tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.98.109]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 171zgx-0003V3-00 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 21:11:00 -0400 Original-Received: from steve by tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 171zgB-0005e0-00; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:10:11 +0900 Original-To: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <6923-Sun28Apr2002212223+0300-eliz@is.elta.co.il> Original-Lines: 47 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.4 (Common Lisp) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.51 (Python 2.1.3 on Linux/i686) Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:3368 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:3368 >>>>> "Eli" == Eli Zaretskii writes: Eli> However, surprise and corruption are two different things... That's right. The user can recover trivially from a "surprise" without help; otherwise it's corruption. I don't think it's our call to make. And I think it should be reasonably easy to protect users substantially better than Emacs currently does. (And XEmacs is worse.) One aspect is making better guesses about desired coding systems. Another is getting the trash coding systems out of the prompt to the user. Eg, I doubt most users _ever_ want to use the -with-esc coding systems. (As far as I can tell X Compound Text should serve the purpose fine, and users can tell for sure that they don't know what it does. The ISO-8859-with-esc are tempting for naive users as "the closest to what I want".) A sample implementation of these aspects (for XEmacs only) is latin-unity: cvs -d pserver:cvs@cvs.xemacs.org:/pack/xemacscvs login # password "cvs" cvs -d pserver:cvs@cvs.xemacs.org:/pack/xemacscvs checkout latin-unity The README describes the features pretty completely. The prompt (which the user sees only if one of the user's preferred coding systems doesn't handle the buffer) is in the function latin-unity-recommend-representation in file latin-unity.el. The user's preferences are captured with the defcustoms in that file. The two big problems with this package (to the author's mind ;-) are that it doesn't handle anything but ISO Latin yet, and it doesn't work on GNU Emacs. The beta testers seem happy with the functionality. The UI needs tuning, of course. Sorry, I don't have time to port to Emacs anytime soon. However, I'll be happy to answer questions (cc me, I don't read emacs-devel every day) and help with factoring out interesting functionality on request. This is all-new code, contributed to XEmacs, and I have assign.future on file for XEmacs. Ie, it's clean for use in GNU Emacs. -- Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN My nostalgia for Icon makes me forget about any of the bad things. I don't have much nostalgia for Perl, so its faults I remember. Scott Gilbert c.l.py