From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Chong Yidong Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: bootstrap problem with union Lisp_Object Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:13:14 -0500 Message-ID: <87zmn3wyv9.fsf@stupidchicken.com> References: <55DA5764-DDB6-4858-9CE2-065857CDC863@gnu.org> <3AFF0594-F842-4079-9A3B-D1CF7358A281@raeburn.org> <0D268F0D-B278-4307-86E3-E0FCE7A3B57B@raeburn.org> <87pso6anui.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> <87wtibiti7.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <877jaalwq9.fsf@stupidchicken.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1134586920 14337 80.91.229.2 (14 Dec 2005 19:02:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:02:00 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 14 20:01:52 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from [199.232.75.2] (helo=lists.gnu.org) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Embs4-0005DR-Ia for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 20:01:01 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Embsf-0006l3-UA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:01:37 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EmXdV-00064y-TC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:29:42 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EmXdM-00063l-Fw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:29:34 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EmXOB-0003JK-Ki for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:13:53 -0500 Original-Received: from [18.95.6.185] (helo=localhost.localdomain) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EmXQF-0003SX-JW; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:15:59 -0500 Original-Received: by localhost.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 52EBF1E41D1; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:13:14 -0500 (EST) Original-To: rms@gnu.org In-Reply-To: (Richard M. Stallman's message of "Wed, 14 Dec 2005 00:12:07 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-Broken-Reverse-DNS: no host name found for IP address 199.232.75.2 Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:47700 Archived-At: "Richard M. Stallman" writes: > I'm not working hard on fixing bugs, indeed, because I pretty demotivated by > the never ending "preparation for pretest" and because those non-trivial > bugs don't have nearly enough info: we need more testers. > > That would be a good point, if not for the fact that we seem to have a > person who can give us useful feedback now. Yidong is working > effectively on that particular bug. I'm not going to keep working on this for much longer if there's going to be no tangible result. Even if that bug is fixed, I'm not confident that there will be an Emacs 22 release. Bug reports, big or little, will keep coming in, there will always be something else to delay the release. At some point, either you have to say "we'll fix only the critical regressions from now till the release", or the release will be delayed forever. That's the experience of successful free software projects, such as gcc, firefox, and linux. What makes you think Emacs or its developers are so special? The "fix all bugs" policy probably worked well back in the days when the development source was closed to all but a handful of developers. Nowadays, CVS Emacs is used by a large number of users, several orders of magnitude more than before (effectively, it's *already* gone through more testing than any previous closed-door Emacs pretest). Like I said, if you're unable to adapt to the new situation, then so be it; I'll be sad if Emacs goes into stagnation, but there are other ways for me to spend my time.