From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juri Linkov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What IDE features do we need? Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:12:21 +0300 Organization: JURTA Message-ID: <87zlrleftm.fsf@jurta.org> References: <87ve2ac2eo.fsf@jurta.org> <20080422115216.GA2609@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1208900030 5724 80.91.229.12 (22 Apr 2008 21:33:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:33:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Richard Stallman , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 22 23:34:25 2008 connect(): Connection refused Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JoQ82-0004HO-7f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 23:34:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JoQ7M-0002hN-Kj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:33:36 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JoQ7H-0002h6-Ji for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:33:31 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JoQ7G-0002gt-ES for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:33:31 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JoQ7G-0002gq-BI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:33:30 -0400 Original-Received: from relay01.kiev.sovam.com ([62.64.120.200]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JoQ7B-0007sl-UZ; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:33:26 -0400 Original-Received: from [83.170.232.243] (helo=smtp.svitonline.com) by relay01.kiev.sovam.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1JoQ77-0002cZ-PG; Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:33:22 +0300 In-Reply-To: <20080422115216.GA2609@muc.de> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:52:16 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) X-Scanner-Signature: 5389b9e13478507b5d7b23e4ed053241 X-DrWeb-checked: yes X-SpamTest-Envelope-From: juri@jurta.org X-SpamTest-Group-ID: 00000000 X-SpamTest-Header: Not Detected X-SpamTest-Info: Profiles 2692 [Apr 22 2008] X-SpamTest-Info: helo_type=3 X-SpamTest-Info: {HEADERS: header Content-Type found without required header Content-Transfer-Encoding} X-SpamTest-Method: none X-SpamTest-Rate: 10 X-SpamTest-Status: Not detected X-SpamTest-Status-Extended: not_detected X-SpamTest-Version: SMTP-Filter Version 3.0.0 [0278], KAS30/Release X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: FreeBSD 4.8-5.1 (or MacOS X 10.2-10.3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:95809 Archived-At: > My opinion is that things like how to mark regions are not _that_ > important in attracting new users. At least, not the sort of users that > would be staying with Emacs anyway. I don't think it's that big a deal > for newbies whether they use +arrows or C- to create a > region. As long as it works well, of course. > > What is important is _features_. About 3 years ago, I was using > hi-lock-mode to highlight some anomalies in a log file (found by a > regexp). My boss (an ex-programmer) saw it, asked me what I was doing, > and within an hour had Emacs on his PC and was using hi-lock-mode to > look at other log files. > > However, the lack of certain features is critical. Juri, what were the > features of that IDE that made the "unskilled novice" so productive? Y'know, all these "intellisense", code browsing and refactoring things. -- Juri Linkov http://www.jurta.org/emacs/