From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r99650: Put scroll-bar on right by default on UNIX. Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 10:39:54 +0100 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <87zl2cmufp.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <87ocitw2dl.fsf@stupidchicken.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1268473225 15511 80.91.229.12 (13 Mar 2010 09:40:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 09:40:25 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Mar 13 10:40:21 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NqNpU-0003Ys-H1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 13 Mar 2010 10:40:20 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50638 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NqNpT-0005a4-NK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 13 Mar 2010 04:40:19 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NqNpM-0005Zy-G1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Mar 2010 04:40:12 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=41693 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NqNpK-0005Zq-Eh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Mar 2010 04:40:11 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NqNpI-0004R7-SE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Mar 2010 04:40:10 -0500 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:52467) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NqNpI-0004R2-Ht for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Mar 2010 04:40:08 -0500 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NqNpH-0003Tc-F5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Mar 2010 10:40:07 +0100 Original-Received: from pik.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de ([134.109.6.1]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2010 10:40:07 +0100 Original-Received: from dak by pik.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2010 10:40:07 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 39 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pik.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.92 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:0NsSUPNXL5OihSSiRFWitIRJTcA= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:121895 Archived-At: Chong Yidong writes: > James Cloos writes: > >> C> Put scroll-bar on right by default on UNIX. >> >> Ewww. Why, if may I ask? >> >> Way over on the right makes the scrollbar essentially useless (except, >> of course, for putative buffers which are (will be) primarily r2l >> and those times when the frame is split horizontally). >> >> It really needs to be near the action, and on landscape displays the >> frames are typically wider than (most of) the text. > > I'm familiar with the advantages, but this battle was fought long ago. Emacs is not occupied territory. Where it makes no sense, following the herd is not necessary. > Every graphical user interface created in the last X years puts the > scroll bar on the right. Emacs is not a graphical display application, but an input text oriented system. JFTR, xterm has its scrollbar on the _left_. > Try naming one other application on a modern GNU/Linux desktop that > does the opposite by default---they don't exist. xterm > Beyond a certain point, conflicting with users' expectations does more > harm than good. Emacs has never had any qualms about conflicting with expectations where this makes better sense. -- David Kastrup