From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Git mirrors Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 19:51:11 +0900 Message-ID: <87zkh6pjog.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <8762k095n4.fsf@lifelogs.com> <871uuksdxi.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87lissh32y.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87zkh8e286.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87d3e4gttq.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87ehyjrhxh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87botmreqf.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83vcruwqs8.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1318416702 3128 80.91.229.12 (12 Oct 2011 10:51:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 10:51:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: ofv@wanadoo.es, lekktu@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, miles@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 12 12:51:37 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RDwPP-0002gm-Hg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2011 12:51:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43197 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDwPP-0005My-3z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2011 06:51:35 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:39365) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDwPM-0005LN-GS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2011 06:51:33 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDwPL-0000x7-90 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2011 06:51:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.224]:53024) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDwPK-0000rW-La for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2011 06:51:31 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18BF09707B0; Wed, 12 Oct 2011 19:51:12 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 128ED1A2739; Wed, 12 Oct 2011 19:51:12 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <83vcruwqs8.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0a1 under 21.5 (beta31) "ginger" 6c76f5b7e2e3 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 130.158.97.224 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:144974 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > > That's cheating, of course. > > Are we up to ad hominem yet? Of course not. Look up "ad hominem". > The policy was explained many times. Richard just explained it > again. No, he didn't. He stated it, said he thinks this is the right thing, and he sees no reason to change. But nobody has presented an argument in this thread for why choosing GNU over good is good for GNU, or even why there needs to be Just One GNU-Sanctified application for each category. One gets the impression that free software lacking the GNU label somehow is, uh, "less helpful" to the free software movement than GNU software is. But that seems to me to be a rather strange point of view. Software doesn't help movements, people do, and the GNU System can (and does) include any free software it finds useful. Friendly competition between bzr and git within the GNU System would be unfortunate (mostly for bzr ;-), but it would (IMO YMMV) make the GNU System as a whole stronger, just as the presence of both RMail and Gnus in Emacs makes Emacs stronger. OTOH, I don't see any real support for the GNU Project in the Bazaar project; they certainly don't prefer GTK+ over Qt for their GUI, for example. AFAICS there are few Emacs users there, and I don't see them participating here in improving vc.el support for Bazaar. Etc, etc. AFAICS the support for GNU is two mentions of the GNU project on the Bazaar home page. Maybe they're contributing substantially in other ways (money to the FSF etc), but nobody has said so, and it's not obvious to me (and I do follow Bazaar channels). > Witness the fact that this time, no one even tried to claim that bzr > performance is bad. My conclusion is that technical factors no longer > matter. It's a religious argument. That last sentence is true (modulo religious ~ political), and given that, failure to present technical argument is no evidence of nonexistence of technical argument. But now is not the time and here is not the place.... > > Eli, if you want to make absolutist arguments like that, start > > writing in the propositional calculus. If you want to continue > > in English, then don't be silly. > > Are we at ad hominem yet? No, not even on the same continent.