From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eric Brown Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Lisp's future Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 07:46:59 -0500 Message-ID: <87zjdyct30.fsf@air.ben-zion.org> References: <87wq97i78i.fsf@earlgrey.lan> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1410958246 4290 80.91.229.3 (17 Sep 2014 12:50:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 12:50:46 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Christopher Allan Webber , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 17 14:50:38 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XUEgw-00014o-G0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 14:50:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44886 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUEgw-0007Ge-1G for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:50:38 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49495) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUEdc-00062r-HD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:47:17 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUEdX-0004M7-21 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:47:12 -0400 Original-Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.25]:51916) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUEdW-0004L0-PJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:47:06 -0400 Original-Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45]) by gateway2.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2524120FAD for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:47:02 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:47:02 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:content-type; s=mesmtp; bh=/LteVxpghY/wKItVc+f1DUX Kzjo=; b=FT2QymenGgz1kig/bQPmznMwwxIoB4ctYYNUDO17FoArsSEBOB4eHGV 78XdG1pYC1jRDY7iukQ0GgXxVlKFH+UIaKWJJt+j8WMX1WkxMbrzpcAui0iTtdlj HiFOGienfNdnZoBTPR0imNjs//jwFswWyeXk+gQ5JQ2OJnHBxJkE= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s=smtpout; bh=/LteVxpghY/wKItVc+f1DUXKzjo=; b=FGvaEhI2Tz2hJ394M36tzp4pjOp4 HrD52gIQ1lsygrrMF0sTnG0/VvxQw/1Ts5f5Gvg95CgectBuO9v5UKgYDt2NmA84 unSbaZ56OQARPftOF23WIJWb32lu+FkqCzQLIKHZZHftf+JJ7NToV4DryJr+Gt25 boJ/UzXEYM9iy7w= X-Sasl-enc: OXMOX1QHGWdbkZkHGaBIPReciOc8uw7vLhiYK9ReyQSa 1410958021 Original-Received: from air.ben-zion.org (unknown [24.12.215.229]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 8A05C680187; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:47:01 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Tue, 16 Sep 2014 11:50:54 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130012 (Ma Gnus v0.12) Emacs/24.3.93 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 66.111.4.25 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:50:28 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:174416 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: > One such option is Guile-Emacs. This presumably would give us a faster > implementation (at least in theory, their bytecode is significantly > more efficient), would give us an FFI, and would give us more manpower > since we'd be benefiting from the work done on Guile. My vote is for whatever brings emacs closer to an FFI that allows us to e.g. generate emacs buffer content in whichever language(s) bests suits the developer and the domain of the subject. > > And of course, if Guile's own manpower dries up, Emacs would be forced > to keep supporting Guile, which is more work than supporting just Elisp. > I thought that Guile is the annointed extension language of GNU projects. Perhaps if more GNU projects evolved into supporting Guile, it would bring more critical mass and interest to bear on Guile. I understand the reality that Emacs is developed largely by volunteer effort. Speaking as a donor/FSF Associate Member, I believe that this should be considered a strategic goal of FSF/GNU leadership. A cynical reply to my comments would be "show me the code, contributions welcome." But without FSF/GNU's coordination and $upport, I fail to see how Emacs will ever evolve beyond the efforts of Hemlock, Guilemacs, Deuce, Climacs, and countless other well-intentioned projects that have failed to take root due to scale of the effort required to make a port of equivalent high functionality, quality, and portability.