From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Lisp's future Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2014 18:01:21 +0200 Message-ID: <87zjd7amy6.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <54193A70.9020901@member.fsf.org> <87wq8pwjen.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <837g0ptnlj.fsf@gnu.org> <87r3yxwdr6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87tx3tmi3t.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <834mvttgsf.fsf@gnu.org> <87lhp5m99w.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87h9ztm5oa.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87d2ahm3nw.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <871tqneyvl.fsf@netris.org> <871tqlubqe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87lhosso3m.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <878ukrsx62.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1412697861 32143 80.91.229.3 (7 Oct 2014 16:04:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2014 16:04:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, mhw@netris.org, dmantipov@yandex.ru, emacs-devel@gnu.org, handa@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, eliz@gnu.org To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 07 18:04:16 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XbXFD-0005Kn-BK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2014 18:04:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59724 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XbXFC-0002Fl-Vj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2014 12:04:10 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35339) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XbXEq-0001mq-Mj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2014 12:03:49 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XbXEk-00070L-Lo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2014 12:03:48 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:43325) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XbXEk-00070H-Iu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2014 12:03:42 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50489 helo=lola) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XbXEb-0005P8-AW; Tue, 07 Oct 2014 12:03:33 -0400 Original-Received: by lola (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 26A52E0545; Tue, 7 Oct 2014 18:01:21 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <878ukrsx62.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (Stephen J. Turnbull's message of "Wed, 08 Oct 2014 00:43:17 +0900") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:175081 Archived-At: "Stephen J. Turnbull" writes: > Richard Stallman writes: > > > To put it another way, Mark said that Guile is intended to be useful > > writing servers as well as interactive programs. > > > > This discussion is about Guile in the context of Emacs specifically. > > "What Guile does" generally is a different, though related, topic. > > Guile could follow the Unicode spec in normal operation, but offer > > another mode that Emacs can use. > > It *could*, but it for the default is entirely unclear to me that it > *should*. Some use cases, such as AUCTeX parsing error messages from > TeX (which treats content quoted from the document as bytes, and so > may slice characters into two invalid byte sequences), will use some > sort of reversible encoding of raw bytes (the current Emacs encoding > is one option, of course). But they can do that explicitly. > > However, in general I think that Emacs should help users who are naive > about Unicode to avoid emitting invalid Unicode, and so should default > to querying the user for permission if that were about to happen. It > should not silently pass on corrupt input to the output. I repeat: that is to be the choice of the application rather than the engine. "We know better than the application writer what he wants" is rarely going to work to the satisfaction of all. This leads to "how do I best work around the engine" approaches that tend to be much less maintainable than explicit actions taking in a place intended by the application. -- David Kastrup