From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: HTML-Info design Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 11:06:47 +0100 Message-ID: <87zja81420.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <87y4q1fekv.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87fvc858c6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87ioh4nf8k.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> <83y4pzptpx.fsf@gnu.org> <871tnr1gqo.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> <83bnmvowdb.fsf@gnu.org> <83ppbanqhe.fsf@gnu.org> <87vbl2xigp.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> <83ioh2nlow.fsf@gnu.org> <87sig6xech.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> <83fvc5ni0u.fsf@gnu.org> <87k31fwwyv.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> <87bnmq9ibf.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> <87wq5c8ybo.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> <874msg2qnf.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1419761228 29818 80.91.229.3 (28 Dec 2014 10:07:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 10:07:08 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Richard Stallman , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Nic Ferrier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Dec 28 11:07:01 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Y5AkX-00052Q-2s for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 28 Dec 2014 11:07:01 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57987 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y5AkW-0008KR-7Z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 28 Dec 2014 05:07:00 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38147) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y5AkS-0008JS-5H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Dec 2014 05:06:57 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y5AkR-00039I-7x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Dec 2014 05:06:56 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:43554) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y5AkR-000395-4l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Dec 2014 05:06:55 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50728 helo=lola) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y5AkK-0008Ci-CR; Sun, 28 Dec 2014 05:06:48 -0500 Original-Received: by lola (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D7642E057F; Sun, 28 Dec 2014 11:06:47 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <874msg2qnf.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (David Kastrup's message of "Sun, 28 Dec 2014 08:13:24 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:180744 Archived-At: David Kastrup writes: > Nic Ferrier writes: > >> It is a BIG job. Getting really good Info like behaviour into a browser >> isn't trivial. It's also a thankless task (as I believe has been proved >> on this thread). > > Replacing an existing solution with existing userbase with something > that is bound to have worse performance and/or less integration with > Emacs is going to be thankless, obviously. The people most expected to > profit from it are not even using preinstalled documentation yet. > > So any thanks will take years to arrive. The most thanks you can expect > from existing Info users is that it works hardly worse than before. > > And it will be quite a bit of work to let the current "I websearch for > everything" target clientele lean towards changing their ways as well. > > So yes: this will very likely require a lot of self-motivation before > satisfactory external appreciation is going to come in. As another data point: quite a few people here claimed that Texinfo=A05's drop of compilation speed was a deal breaker for them. Compilation speed. And you are working on a replacement for an interactive application that is supposed to tie into one's editing workflow. And it is supposed to tie into Emacs workflows by engaging an Emacs-based HTML browser. That's a long long uphill battle. So one should very much focus on thinking about game-changing workflow features implementable in the HTML backend that are not accessible from Info. --=20 David Kastrup