From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Debugging Emacs Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 15:47:17 +0000 Message-ID: <87zixhvvga.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <87r3jbicg0.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83wpt3qq7b.fsf@gnu.org> <87lh9jp073.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83h9k6r1z8.fsf@gnu.org> <878u5hlxqd.fsf@russet.org.uk> <8337vpq2po.fsf@gnu.org> <87zixxkdth.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87si3na9yr.fsf@ulb.ac.be> <83h9jxf9l2.fsf@gnu.org> <87oae27fix.fsf@russet.org.uk> <837fkqdxq7.fsf@gnu.org> <87poye2aof.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83y4d18md0.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1449848855 8436 80.91.229.3 (11 Dec 2015 15:47:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 15:47:35 +0000 (UTC) Cc: nrichard@ulb.ac.be, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 11 16:47:35 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1a7Puu-0001Xa-3R for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 11 Dec 2015 16:47:32 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48253 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a7Put-0003Ir-9k for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 11 Dec 2015 10:47:31 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50209) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a7Pum-0003IG-Ag for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Dec 2015 10:47:28 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a7Pul-0000rJ-BU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Dec 2015 10:47:24 -0500 Original-Received: from cheviot22.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.234.22]:55465) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a7Puf-0000qW-To; Fri, 11 Dec 2015 10:47:18 -0500 Original-Received: from smtpauth-vm.ncl.ac.uk ([10.8.233.129] helo=smtpauth.ncl.ac.uk) by cheviot22.ncl.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1a7Puf-0001Gl-Dy; Fri, 11 Dec 2015 15:47:17 +0000 Original-Received: from jangai.ncl.ac.uk ([10.66.67.223] helo=localhost) by smtpauth.ncl.ac.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1a7Puf-0000qx-65; Fri, 11 Dec 2015 15:47:17 +0000 In-Reply-To: <83y4d18md0.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 11 Dec 2015 09:39:55 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 128.240.234.22 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:196117 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Perhaps I am being thick, but I tried C-z and AFAICT it does nothing. I >> mean, where do I type C-z? In the debugged Emacs? In the Emacs running >> gdb? > > Into the Emacs window, like DEBUG says. I can't get this to work (not when debugging Emacs inside another Emacs). >> > Seriously, though: the few steps you described there are quite >> > possibly not what the user will need to do, so I think it would get in >> > the way. >> >> I'd welcome simplification. > > Alas, there is no simplification I could think of. Okay. > One other thing to keep in mind is that having documentation that is > too closely tied to the current source (e.g., quoting function and > variable names) is a certain maintenance burden, since functions and > variables are routinely renamed, moved to other places, and deleted as > part of development, and we then have yet another file to keep in sync > with that. Not rocket science, just one more thing to consider when > deciding whether this is worth the hassle. This is also a reason why I thought adding a "break" function (which does nothing and could be breakpointed by .gdbinit would be a good thing). >> >> Probably, etc/DEBUG needs to be replaced with a section in the elisp >> >> manual. >> > >> > Somebody already mentioned that. I don't think I agree: when you >> > debug, you need the instructions be available on the simplest medium >> > possible, so a plain text file is better than Info. What's more >> > important, a single file with a distinct name is easier found than a >> > section in a large manual. >> >> Unconvinced. The single large manual is also on the web and it's easier >> to find there than as a file in etc/DEBUG. I tried searching for "Emacs >> debug with GDB" and various other combinations before I found etc/DEBUG. >> Which I found because you described it on Emacs-devel. > > It's mentioned in CONTRIBUTE, FWIW. That should be the first place > people look for this information. I don't know how to advertise it > better, and I very much doubt having it in the manual will do the job: > look at how many questions get posted that are already in the manuals. The manual is difficult and people will always miss things. But I found it hard to find out how to debug Emacs C than Emacs lisp -- not a surprise, many fewer people do it. I looked in the web first. I guess many people would do the same (esp. as this includes the manual). Phil