From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why does the tutorial talk about C-n/C-p etc? Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 19:46:42 +0000 Message-ID: <87ziu2upnh.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <87y49q64eg.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87wpp9dkux.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83twkbfofd.fsf@gnu.org> <838u1mfi7q.fsf@gnu.org> <83y49me19o.fsf@gnu.org> <56E5B472.1070002@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1457898423 9990 80.91.229.3 (13 Mar 2016 19:47:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 19:47:03 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment?= Pit--Claudel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Mar 13 20:46:53 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1afByX-0005HP-37 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 20:46:53 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37401 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1afByW-0002lC-NJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 15:46:52 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38020) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1afByS-0002kt-89 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 15:46:49 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1afByP-0004xN-1I for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 15:46:48 -0400 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:60255) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1afByO-0004x9-Na for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 15:46:44 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=sPs5B559xERxnDY2xxf7QRDrskGn/fWAZ2gnhw50RWQ=; b=WrRNMvZa7qe4Ghf/Hk8YyLjMgm eqXprlXM8N02/MFEIIB6xqpOv+h5edlgI/5gygngk5F7YN+Uf3X0OyhpOpU3CkavjD52eijESgbOz WKTSQvxx82OMCt5f62TuLgn7AwkDBzpNiG4luQxxoGudRpK/BVXHJlY6AKhFa7bhvzewHm5NNacTs DNoewMopBsgCOaabuQuDAU3kikWIY/9jmRjio5pnzlvR0GYaSz0UAWQ0s99taqZyJzp/zfw7ySB7C 47Zc9A4CnwmKpT9PLVBQVBxhlrjPCJgD7om/p4gZNIvpE5aDAWh7Y0LpiNS6BBDhZlR7n0kO3KUp4 Cipags0g==; Original-Received: from cpc1-benw10-2-0-cust373.gate.cable.virginm.net ([77.98.219.118]:36873 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1afByN-001E0w-Gg; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 19:46:43 +0000 In-Reply-To: <56E5B472.1070002@gmail.com> (=?utf-8?Q?=22Cl=C3=A9ment?= Pit--Claudel"'s message of "Sun, 13 Mar 2016 14:41:54 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 31.216.48.48 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:201637 Archived-At: Cl=C3=A9ment Pit--Claudel writes: > On 03/13/2016 01:27 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> That would fit most of the tutorial. >>=20 >> Things that are truly indispensable are mostly those which the readers >> already know: basic cursor motion, inserting a character and deleting >> a character. The only other necessary stiff is C-x C-f and C-x C-s, >> but those can be replaced by menu-bar commands. > > Hey Eli, > > Here are a few things that I struggled with when I started using Emacs > (phrased in terms of concepts that I was already familiar with) > > * Opening and saving a file > * Copying (or cutting) and pasting > * Undoing, and in particular the notion of undoing an undo > * Using C-u as a prefix > * Searching (and replacing) > * The notion of major and minor modes I think many of these are essential. The tutorial needs to indicate where Emacs is different from rest of the world. So, keyboard-centric control, that it has pasting, but not cutting and copying (or rather that these are implicit), viewing one file twice, that files are not files but buffers, that windows are frames. Finishing off with modes and how to install new ones. > One final idea: maybe the tutorial could showcase more of Emacs' fancy > features? Like syntax highlighting, spell checking, image support, > indentation, and similar things? Right now it's a plain text buffer in > fundamental mode. In this day and age, these are not really fancy, but basic technology. Fortunately, most of them just work. Phil