From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: David Engster Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.orgmode Subject: Re: Sync up the org in emacs master to org maint branch? Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2017 23:03:47 +0100 Message-ID: <87zihzf03g.fsf@engster.org> References: <87k29d7zvw.fsf@engster.org> <87fuk08i01.fsf@engster.org> <87d1f36xnc.fsf@engster.org> <87a8a4ees0.fsf@engster.org> <87poiz2raf.fsf@engster.org> <871svdrov0.fsf@gmail.com> <871svcinf3.fsf@engster.org> <871svcxtlr.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1486418659 10616 195.159.176.226 (6 Feb 2017 22:04:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 22:04:19 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: Bastien Guerry , Emacs developers , Phillip Lord , emacs-org list , Kaushal Modi To: Edward John Steere Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 06 23:04:15 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1carOP-0002Xg-5m for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2017 23:04:13 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50868 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1carOU-0001ga-N6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2017 17:04:18 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52369) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1carOH-0001eT-Vx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2017 17:04:07 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1carOD-0006kN-0i for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2017 17:04:06 -0500 Original-Received: from randomsample.de ([5.45.97.173]:43284) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1carOC-0006iI-H8; Mon, 06 Feb 2017 17:04:00 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=randomsample.de; s=a; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=npec8zWqPLX4JCTDBQzAaVEgODinJ7Erx8oU5oowAAY=; b=fCwQ0PXtZ3HLaLvXicF2DYRYl20UoteOBEgiM/i3feFG76W/96TAFHh/IRlKwtTPfVuUPs4qc7atxjFCQzGQQre50wK4NXsjQeRxuxv2YnG87u0qolemvo5G5xgILLNY; Original-Received: from ip4d16b353.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de ([77.22.179.83] helo=isaac) by randomsample.de with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1carO4-0005ry-C7; Mon, 06 Feb 2017 23:03:52 +0100 In-Reply-To: <871svcxtlr.fsf@gmail.com> (Edward John Steere's message of "Sun, 05 Feb 2017 22:36:48 +0200") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 5.45.97.173 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:212064 gmane.emacs.orgmode:111958 Archived-At: Edward John Steere writes: > - Suppose that Emacs 22.0 is the current release and Emacs 22.1 is then > released; CEDET is at > - we update a registry somewhere indicating that Emacs 22.0 works with > and 22.1 works with > > - When we make updates to CEDET we mark 22.1 as working with > but we don't change that reference > for 22.0 (or any older versions) > - When someone complains that there's a bug in CEDET for 22.0 we > indicate that it's no longer supported and that they should update > Emacs to receive updates > > This process would almost be the same as what you get just by bundling > CEDET with Emacs except that: > > - You can get the latest CEDET *if* you have the latest Emacs No. We have two branches: emacs-25 and master. The CEDET from master will usually not work on any 25.x version. > - The version of CEDET for any particular version of Emacs is as far as > CEDET got before the next release of Emacs came out > > If this is what you were thinking of then please could you elaborate on > what ended up being the problem which added more work. First off, CEDET is currently *not* a package, although that notion gets thrown around a lot. It is scattered across the Emacs code base: lisp/cedet, admin/grammars, etc/srecode, documentation, and test suite. All this needs to be packaged in a way so that it can be integrated into Emacs during a normal checkout. It needs to build and test in such a normal checkout, but also separately when installed from ELPA, including grammar compilation. And you need this twice: one for emacs-25, one for master, with the possiblity to merge between the two. Then there's this "registry". No one has said how that should work. "Submodules/Subtrees" are *not* a sufficient answer, they are just tools. People will need to say how the *workflow* should be, including such things like merges from stable, ChangeLog generation, AUTHORS, NEWS, creating release tarballs, and so on. Once someone has written this down *in detail*, we can discuss again if this indeed will make things simpler and reduce our workload. > I feel like there are aspects of CEDET which are still under > development. I hope so. >> Well, we cannot really discuss this since there's no real plan how this >> all should work. I can only speak from experience. > > We can still put ideas forward though. Haven't come up with anything > myself yet though. Yes, you can, but it has a cost. Once again, the CEDET merge is stalled, and we spend our time writing mails. I find this situation incredibly frustrating. >> How does CEDET, Gnus and Org affect the rest of Emacs? They strongly >> depend on Emacs "core" (whatever exactly that is), not the other way >> round. > > I believe that one of the intentions of the move is to enforce this so > we can't build bad dependencies -- am I wrong? I think other modes should use Semantic. > Perhaps I'm wrong, but to my mind the package approach would afford us > with more testing before we get to the point of another release of > Emacs. If you develop on Emacs 'master', you can use all the new features (like threading and FFI), but you loose testers on 25.x. A package won't change that. -David