From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Improving GNU ELPA Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 23:54:07 +0100 Message-ID: <87zic05980.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <87r2xg2wra.fsf@bernoul.li> <87pod02swk.fsf@bernoul.li> <8760eqxdko.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87pocxogsk.fsf@russet.org.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1500504951 2513 195.159.176.226 (19 Jul 2017 22:55:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 22:55:51 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.2 (gnu/linux) Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 20 00:55:43 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dXxsS-00087y-So for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 00:55:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35282 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dXxsY-0007rw-Is for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 18:55:38 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50136) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dXxrt-0007rm-Os for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 18:54:58 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dXxrs-0003nu-RU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 18:54:57 -0400 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:44551) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dXxro-0003SJ-4A; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 18:54:52 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Sf4VZkXjhYiHESekLlNDSTG066UaidrlTVNLh+YLUrE=; b=FOIgvbwd9inAMb5GP4wZULTUj E7O6anl1vCRGRu7gBFu+o7IqwcQ68OiDmT/ymapBLc69HT7gvxzzM2YwW7mZLB3X5zANM9QT2y097 6bzjYV9gEW1p6Fx65MaRt42LwoSCLsrdfIof0JNbGtOYiL5dvpabJsTPRwTZ51x8wGWTinOTdXaxE BUHxkwCQTy/iE0nO7qWuhzHbahcuhXkf4DvjzT55jnwyoGsgFqrTB+GwaYEVAQj9fBYHf1KZyDCp8 dkQ83to9f8MyzQ2XPmj4l5prJe5curGT7DAoHcjHnibTteJZ/ZBNlnWdP8sRCFy0c0WW0OmDJ9ZEm MFA4amMzw==; Original-Received: from cpc8-benw10-2-0-cust100.16-2.cable.virginm.net ([92.233.204.101]:50672 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1dXxr5-001Vs0-Vv; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 22:54:08 +0000 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Tue, 18 Jul 2017 23:31:15 -0400") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 78.129.138.110 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:216880 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > As I said, it doesn't avoid the problem, it just changes the nature of > > that problem. > > I have a hunch that "the problem" you are talking about is not the > same problem. I can't verify this, because you tallk about "the > problem" tersely in the abstract, without stating concretely what > problem you mean. But I am pretty sure it's not the one I am trying > to avoid. Specifically, that I cannot push to dash on github which is the main repository. This is not a big deal, I just haven't asked for it. > > As Stefan has said, at the moment, dealing with these > > issues is, anyway, consider the problem of the upstream person. > > I would describe that as the "easy way out". You consider it a good > option and recommend it as a solution, but I see it as opening a can > of worms. Thus, for me it is "the problem" and I am looking for how > we can _avoid_ it. > > > The > > presence of push rights changes nothing if you do not use them. > > Alas, I don't follow -- that is rather terse, so I don't understand > the point. I am not sure whether I would agree or disagree, if I > understood. So, the issue is this: Assume we have a package (like dash) which is maintained and developed in some external git repo. I think, ELPA would be easier to use if it just pulled directly and automatically from this external git repo. If the Emacs maintainers want to update that package, they should use PRs to the upstream. Commit or push rights on upstream are not necessary. This is enough, for most cases, and is also easy for the upstream developer. This is also how MELPA runs, so clearly it can work in practice. There are emergencies that we might concieve of where a change needs to be made to ELPA immediately, today, without any delay. In these circumstances, a copy of the project history would be available in the ELPA repository. Changes could be made there, with the knowledge that the upstream package would need to do something to reincorporate these emergency changes. MELPA has a similar policy for switching upstream. This requires almost no software (just something to run the pull), no changes to ELPA, just a change in policy. In response, ELPA becomes a little more frictionless, a little more convienient for contributors. Going round in circles here, so I stop. Phil